Worcester Heatslave 18/25 Combi....Water Too Hot.
- Thread starter boozercruiser
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Tony. Yes I will...........................................................................
Complete with Full Address, Telephone Number, E. Mail Address,
Where his Second Home is, where he is going on Holiday,
What he has for Breakfast Etc. Etc. Etc.
Complete with Full Address, Telephone Number, E. Mail Address,
Where his Second Home is, where he is going on Holiday,
What he has for Breakfast Etc. Etc. Etc.
P.S. On a slight 'bleed' of the Radiators the water looks pretty clear and clean
It must just have been my paranoid cynical, negative thoughts.
It must just have been my paranoid cynical, negative thoughts.
Agile wrote
Primary water in a heat bank ?.
Why would it need to be stored above 60 C to prevent legionella ?.
The store is there to provide instantaneous HW on demand through circulation of the stored primary water across a plate heat exchanger similar to a combination boiler !.
How effective that transfer of energy will be all depends on the sizing of the plate heat exchanger.
Primary water in a heat bank ?.
Why would it need to be stored above 60 C to prevent legionella ?.
The store is there to provide instantaneous HW on demand through circulation of the stored primary water across a plate heat exchanger similar to a combination boiler !.
How effective that transfer of energy will be all depends on the sizing of the plate heat exchanger.
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Hello All. Below is my recent letter to Worcester which explains all:-
Martyn Bridges
Director of Marketing and Technical Support
Worcester Bosch Group
Dear Sir,
Good morning. I am writing to you in the hope that you can help solve what is to my Wife and I a problem in respect of our recently installed (25/07/0icon_cool.gif Greenstar Heatslave 18/25 Condensing Combination Boiler. Our 'problem' is that we feel that the water gets far too hot even on the lowest setting of number 1. (Max 6). Running water at that heat is too uncomfortable to be able to keep ones hands under the tap.
On Friday 8th August 2008 your very nice Service Engineer came out to do a performance check on the boiler and looked into my concerns that my wife and I felt that the water was simply too hot on the lowest setting. He found that the temperature of the water on that setting was in the region of 47 degrees.
His opinion was that the temperatures fell within the requirement of the boiler and advised us that the only way to lower this was to have a 'Blender' installed,
at our cost of course.
This to us was not the answer as the boiler would still be heating the water to that level in the expansion vessel with the relevant cost of oil incurred.
With great respect, my wife and I feel that Worcester Bosh have it wrong regarding where to set the temperature for the lowest it can be using the temperature control . We think that surely number 1 should perhaps mean a little warm and 6 really hot.
We also cannot understand why there is not a zero setting if one does not want the the expansion vessel to hold any heated water at all for whatever period.
My Wife and I hope that you can help us overcome our 'problem'.
Yours Sincerely,
Is there some nice kind person here who has either an answer or an opinion?
Cheers.
Hello All. (Particularly Agile I have recently heard back personally from Mr. Bridges. If I may quote from some of it:-
"The minimal setting of the hot water temperature thermostat is 55 Deg. C. This is of boiler or primary water to which is then transferred to the incoming mains will give roughly of what you already mention in your letter i.e. 47C. Normally this is above bathing temperature water but sufficiently hot enough to clean crockery and dishes hygienically. With the hot water thermostat on No. 6 then the water temp. is increased to around 70C which is quite hot. At this position the thermal store will also be hotter all around and so you would certainly be able to achieve the stated quantity of one draw i.e. approx. 90 litres of water at an average temperatuire rise of 40C with a reheat period of around 10 minutes, a further 90 litres would then be achievable.
The European standard for combination boilers allows us to generate hot water to 95C. I would tend to agree with the Engineers recommendation that if you require hot water lower than the minimum setting being issued by the boiler then locally sited thermostatic blending valves will be the only solution. This will obviously allow lower temperatures to around 42-43 at your selected hot water outlets., yet still maintain the ability to heat water over 60C and prevent legionella condition spreading.
I am sorry that I cannot offer any alternative to the solution already provided by our engineer, but hopefully clarifies the situation a little more.
Martyn Bridges
Director of Marketing and Technical Support.
So there it is. The boiler cannot go from Cold Water to Hot Water by turning the dial from 1 to 6 which is what I would have liked.
Never mind. You win some.
You lose some
Martyn Bridges
Director of Marketing and Technical Support
Worcester Bosch Group
Dear Sir,
Good morning. I am writing to you in the hope that you can help solve what is to my Wife and I a problem in respect of our recently installed (25/07/0icon_cool.gif Greenstar Heatslave 18/25 Condensing Combination Boiler. Our 'problem' is that we feel that the water gets far too hot even on the lowest setting of number 1. (Max 6). Running water at that heat is too uncomfortable to be able to keep ones hands under the tap.
On Friday 8th August 2008 your very nice Service Engineer came out to do a performance check on the boiler and looked into my concerns that my wife and I felt that the water was simply too hot on the lowest setting. He found that the temperature of the water on that setting was in the region of 47 degrees.
His opinion was that the temperatures fell within the requirement of the boiler and advised us that the only way to lower this was to have a 'Blender' installed,
at our cost of course.
This to us was not the answer as the boiler would still be heating the water to that level in the expansion vessel with the relevant cost of oil incurred.
With great respect, my wife and I feel that Worcester Bosh have it wrong regarding where to set the temperature for the lowest it can be using the temperature control . We think that surely number 1 should perhaps mean a little warm and 6 really hot.
We also cannot understand why there is not a zero setting if one does not want the the expansion vessel to hold any heated water at all for whatever period.
My Wife and I hope that you can help us overcome our 'problem'.
Yours Sincerely,
Is there some nice kind person here who has either an answer or an opinion?
Cheers.
Hello All. (Particularly Agile
I have recently heard back personally from Mr. Bridges. If I may quote from some of it:- "The minimal setting of the hot water temperature thermostat is 55 Deg. C. This is of boiler or primary water to which is then transferred to the incoming mains will give roughly of what you already mention in your letter i.e. 47C. Normally this is above bathing temperature water but sufficiently hot enough to clean crockery and dishes hygienically. With the hot water thermostat on No. 6 then the water temp. is increased to around 70C which is quite hot. At this position the thermal store will also be hotter all around and so you would certainly be able to achieve the stated quantity of one draw i.e. approx. 90 litres of water at an average temperatuire rise of 40C with a reheat period of around 10 minutes, a further 90 litres would then be achievable.
The European standard for combination boilers allows us to generate hot water to 95C. I would tend to agree with the Engineers recommendation that if you require hot water lower than the minimum setting being issued by the boiler then locally sited thermostatic blending valves will be the only solution. This will obviously allow lower temperatures to around 42-43 at your selected hot water outlets., yet still maintain the ability to heat water over 60C and prevent legionella condition spreading.
I am sorry that I cannot offer any alternative to the solution already provided by our engineer, but hopefully clarifies the situation a little more.
Martyn Bridges
Director of Marketing and Technical Support.
So there it is. The boiler cannot go from Cold Water to Hot Water by turning the dial from 1 to 6 which is what I would have liked.
Never mind. You win some.
You lose some
D
Deleted member 105431
I think your being too fussy. 47 deg c is not excessively hot at all. stop moaning.
Does Agile work for WB, i'm sure his previous posts stated something very similar to Martyn Bridges.
Then again any half decent installer would have told you the same thing
Then again any half decent installer would have told you the same thing
Might as well wade in here. The store is to store heat, not water (already pointed out I know). The water coming out of the taps at the lowest setting is 47 deg. This is in recent weeks, when the ground temperature is relatively high, and so the incoming water is not very cold. This will be very different in late November to April (approx).
As the warm (relatively) water passes through the heat exchanger, it takes heat from the store at a rate proportional to the difference between the store and the incoming temperature, and also dependant on the flow rate. If you want it cooler, you turn the tap on more. Now it is giving 47 deg when the ground water is around 15 deg, in the winter the ground water could be 5 deg, so you would be lucky to get water at 40 from the taps. Most people complain about the length of time it takes to fill a bath in the winter.
With these compromises, there is a range of temperature which will give what most find adequate. If you want something else, you have to add say, a blending valve, or you have to do what most responsible people do, and put the plug in, then mix hot with cold to get the required temperature. This saves wasting water by having the tap running all the time you are washing your hands.
There is also a zero setting, it's called the "boiler isolator switch". Turn it off and the boiler will not get any hotter than its surroundings.
As the warm (relatively) water passes through the heat exchanger, it takes heat from the store at a rate proportional to the difference between the store and the incoming temperature, and also dependant on the flow rate. If you want it cooler, you turn the tap on more. Now it is giving 47 deg when the ground water is around 15 deg, in the winter the ground water could be 5 deg, so you would be lucky to get water at 40 from the taps. Most people complain about the length of time it takes to fill a bath in the winter.
With these compromises, there is a range of temperature which will give what most find adequate. If you want something else, you have to add say, a blending valve, or you have to do what most responsible people do, and put the plug in, then mix hot with cold to get the required temperature. This saves wasting water by having the tap running all the time you are washing your hands.
There is also a zero setting, it's called the "boiler isolator switch". Turn it off and the boiler will not get any hotter than its surroundings.
D
Deleted member 105431
No, but I expect that Martyn checked what I had said before he wrote his letter!
Tony
Yes. And some posters here are just ***s takeing, know all, know ***k all condescending A*****es as well in my opinion.
Listen. And listen good.
All we wanted from our new boiler was a temperature range to come from the taps at a range from perhaps cool all the way to very hot.
As well as the convenience of that the Store Tank on the boiler holds 69 Litres of water. This means in effect that while the boiler is switched on even at the lowest number 1 setting then that amount of water is being kept at around a temperature of 55C.
This has to be paid for in use of Oil.
If your heating couldn't go lower than say 24C would you be happy with that? or would you try to find away of turning it down so as to get more comfortable and save money?
Oh! and lets not forget the extra Carbon Emmisions (That is if you believe all that ***p) to save the planet.
Though at the moment the only danger from Carbon Emissions is the ones coming from mouths of the the minority of pompous twits that inhabit this Forum!
Regarding it being said here by one or two A******S that I am being "Fussy" and "Moaning".
Perhaps we have Saints here that are never ever 'Fussy' and never ever 'Moan' about anything?
If this is YOU. Nice one. Heaven awaits you In conclusion, I wish to add that I have found this minority I am talking about most unfriendly during my relatively short membership.
Perhaps the Moderators may care to take a look at that.
Still. Best Regards to all and thanks for your help and advice. Some did try to stick just with that.
P.S. The spell checker could't work out the missing letters. I hope that the ones concerned can. I could there's
I think your being too fussy. 47 deg c is not excessively hot at all. stop moaning.
P.S. Before I go to bed, one last thought.
Do me a favour M8 will you pretty please?
Get your Hot Water tap running at 47C and put your Dongler (Of which you sound like one
) under it and hold it there for a half an hour. Mr. Bridges reckons that this temperature is hot enough to clean crockery and dishes hygienically. That should do the trick for you for once.
When you get back from hospital please come and report here all about your experience.
On the other hand. Perhaps that might shut you up?
D
Deleted member 105431
I think your being too fussy. 47 deg c is not excessively hot at all. stop moaning.
P.S. Before I go to bed, one last thought.
Do me a favour M8 will you pretty please?
Get your Hot Water tap running at 47C and put your Dongler (Of which you sound like one
Mr. Bridges reckons that this temperature is hot enough to clean crockery and dishes hygienically. That should do the trick for you for once.
When you get back from hospital please come and report here all about your experience.
On the other hand. Perhaps that might shut you up?
47 deg won't scald you, just clean you. t.w.a.t!
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