Kitchen rewire quote- too much?

[blainey]

Hi
I've just had a quote of £350 for a rewire of a small kitchen- 3 low level plugs, light switch, 2 double sockets at worktop level, wiring for hob, oven and extractor. He's also going to drill a hole through for venting the extractor. Sound steep? Or ok?
Thanks
Alison

 

[divadoll_1]

Damn that sounds cheap for Kent price sparks..dunno about your area. Is there any chasing of the walls to be done?

 

[Jaymack]

Does the guy who gave you the quote speak good english?
Jaymack

 

[Monsoon]

Hi
I've just had a quote of £350 for a rewire of a small kitchen- 3 low level plugs, light switch, 2 double sockets at worktop level, wiring for hob, oven and extractor. He's also going to drill a hole through for venting the extractor. Sound steep? Or ok?
Thanks
Alison

Have a look at a recent thread I opened on getting estimating costs.
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52596

To work out if you are getting fair price, you need to find out if the sparky is Part P registered so he can certify his own work, If not then you will need to contact the council building regs department and have the work inspected at additional cost to you. Part P registered electricians can certify their own work.

Once you have your price you need to know if it includes VAT and Materials.

I would also want to know what make fittings they were using and how much of the quote is materials.

Naturally you need to know how long the job will take. From that you can workout an hourly rate (a qualified sparky should be charging between £20-30 per hour)

Allowing for all that a sparky will charge what the job is worth to him, the hassle factor and how busy he is at the time.

One thing that occurred to me while I've been looking into this recently is your local electrical wholesaler knows loads of sparkies in the area and especially important the ones *not working/slow*. If you were to approach him with a list of materials you require and say you need a quote from a sparky for the labour then I'm sure he can provide names and numbers of good sparkies available to work.

Hope that helps.

 

[dingbat]

If you were to approach him with a list of materials you require and say you need a quote from a sparky for the labour then I'm sure he can provide names and numbers of good sparkies available to work.

Just to chip in on this point. All tradesmen hate quoting for labour-only jobs. Customer-supplied materials are invariably bought on price alone and are often inadequate for the job. You will not be offered any form of warranty on materials unless it's part of the deal.

What about fixings? Screws, plugs, capping, nails, sealants, adhesives, tape, terminal blocks, sleeving, etc? How much do you buy? And what do you do with the leftovers?
What if one of the sockets you bought is damaged? A spark will have extra stock with him of the ones he normally uses - they may not match the ones you have supplied and at £25 per hour it's an expensive operation to replace.
And consumables - drill bits, blades, wear and tear on tools, etc... it's all part of the material cost.

You may well find that buying the materials yourself - especially for a small job like a kitchen - is a false economy, saving you little or nothing and possibly restricting your choice of tradesmen because some will not quote labour-only at all.

But don't take my word for it. Call a few electricians in your area and ask if they will give you comparitive quotes for supply and fit as well as labour only.

 

[Monsoon]

If you were to approach him with a list of materials you require and say you need a quote from a sparky for the labour then I'm sure he can provide names and numbers of good sparkies available to work.

Just to chip in on this point. All tradesmen hate quoting for labour-only jobs. Customer-supplied materials are invariably bought on price alone and are often inadequate for the job. You will not be offered any form of warranty on materials unless it's part of the deal.

What about fixings? Screws, plugs, capping, nails, sealants, adhesives, tape, terminal blocks, sleeving, etc? How much do you buy? And what do you do with the leftovers?
What if one of the sockets you bought is damaged? A spark will have extra stock with him of the ones he normally uses - they may not match the ones you have supplied and at £25 per hour it's an expensive operation to replace.
And consumables - drill bits, blades, wear and tear on tools, etc... it's all part of the material cost.

You may well find that buying the materials yourself - especially for a small job like a kitchen - is a false economy, saving you little or nothing and possibly restricting your choice of tradesmen because some will not quote labour-only at all.

But don't take my word for it. Call a few electricians in your area and ask if they will give you comparitive quotes for supply and fit as well as labour only.

I'm not suggesting getting a labour only job. Just a breakdown of costs on the quote. It's no different to getting you car fixed. They list parts and labour as two separate figures. At least then you can see that the material costs are reasonable and also ask if a cheaper (or more expensive fitting for that matter) is available.

The suggestion to approach a wholesaler with a list is a sensible one. First off you can get an idea of how much the materials cost. Secondly, the wholesaler gets paid on selling kit, the sparkies he recommends will be buying the kit from him. Therefore, you can pay for labour and materials from your nominated sparky safe in the knowledge you're getting a fair price.

The wholesaler sells his kit, you get a fair price and the sparky gets a paying job - everyone's happy

Edit: Just to add - I think you are right about it being a false economy in most cases to supply your own materials. The inital contact with wholesaler on pricing the job for materials, is a way to get him interested and helpful.

 

[dingbat]

Monsoon, I see what you're saying, but I still say that the cost of materials as viewed by the customer is very different to the true cost of materials used. For a larger job such as yours there may be an advantage and in your current and projected position in development it makes sense to know your costings, but on one-off jobs, such as the OP's, it can lead to misunderstanding.

Some time back I went through an exercise of costing out very carefully what I had actually used over a period of time and what I had charged my customers. I was shocked to find that I had only charged customers for the cable and accessories supplied and that the numerous sundries were effectively coming out of my labour rate. I now have a daily rate to cover sundries, insurance costs, scheme memberships, training, transport, work clothes, advertising, stationery, etc, etc and this cost is factored into the jobs I do. It's part of the cost of keeping me in business before I even start to earn a wage.

So, a quote for adding a couple of sockets might look like this:

Materials - £5.00
Labour - £50
Sundries - £30

Which looks like I am trying to rip you off. Yet £85 for two new sockets is entirely reasonable.

 

[Monsoon]

So, a quote for adding a couple of sockets might look like this:

Materials - £5.00
Labour - £50
Sundries - £30

Which looks like I am trying to rip you off. Yet £85 for two new sockets is entirely reasonable.

I agree that would seem a reasonable price.

So there you go giving the breakdown does not necessarily put people off as you can quite easily justify your cost.

The alternative is the customer checks the price of a socket in Wickes sees that its a couple of quid and thinks an all in cost of £85 is a rip off. Likewise I wouldn't expect a sundries cost to rise to £90 for 6 new sockets. Proportionally the sundries amount should drop as the size of the job increases.

Breaking down the costs will always send the cowboys running guaranteed. The last thing they want is to justify their costs because they *cant*.

The fact that the OP is asking the question about costs is reason enough to suggest she would like know how the cost is arrived at. Lots of punters will just phone up an advert in the yellow pages and take the 1st price they are quoted (normally these ad's AAAAA Electrical Services 24hr Call out - Free estimates ) Good luck to them!

If anything giving a more detailed quote protects the tradesman from the punter who 'thought they were getting 'gold plated sockets' not MKs. It's also a good discipline for the tradesman to cost accurately, as you say

numerous sundries were effectively coming out of my labour rate.

I'm sure many tradesman find they make far less on a job because they have not costed the job accurately. Their augment is always well it's swings and roundabouts ..... it just I dont want to be a roundabout .... ermmmm or is it I dont wanna be a swing not sure which way round that works

 

[Monsoon]

Just out interest Dingbat as you're in the trade how would you have costed my job .... say based on a solid £30ph

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52596

 

[blainey]

Hi there
Thanks for all the replies!

Divadoll_1- not sure what you mean by 'chasing' (too technical for me!) but the electrics are fairly exposed as we have pretty much gutted the kitchen. There are however some old wires that are completely 'wrong' and have to be replaced.

I'm not sure if he is part P registered- will have to find out. What does getting the work certified yourself involve? Is it very expensive and when do you have to do it?

Thanks again
Alison

 

[blainey]

Jaymack- what do you mean?! He speaks perfect Glaswegian!!

 

[divadoll_1]

Chasing is where he cuts a channel in the wall to run cabling or conduit (or both) up to the relevent outlets. Sockets attached to surface mounted trunking looks naff in anywhere other than a commercial building. Chasing will allow you to plaster or tile over the top for a neater, cleaner finish.
I would get back to him and ask 'exactly' what you are getting for your money, and even ask if there is some of his work done locally for you to take a look at.

 

[blainey]

Hi there
I think we made it pretty clear that we wanted the wires concealed (I hope!)- there is a fairly thick layer of gypsum that he can chip into. He was recommended by a friend as he did a good job of his flat rewire and didn't leave a huge mess to clear up. I'm just so sick of wires hanging out everywhere and having no ceiling lights!!
Thanks for the advice
Alison

 

[blainey]

Hi there
Been looking into this part P thing- has it come into effect in Scotland yet?
Thanks
Alison

 

[Monsoon]

Hi there
Been looking into this part P thing- has it come into effect in Scotland yet?
Thanks
Alison

I think Scotland has stricter building regs for some time on electrical work .... we are just catching up in England and Wales.

Either way the council building reg department will point you in the right direction. Certainly down here in England if a non registered sparky was quoting on a job and he didnt advise me that in the 1st instance I should contact the council then I would not be best pleased.

Conversely I would expect a registered sparky to be telling me all about the system with little or no prompting (It should be a selling point).