Kitchen rewire quote- too much?

[dingbat]

Dingbat dont take this the wrong way but that seems much more than I budgeted for. Maybe I need modify my design to get it within my budget

Maybe you do. But on what did you base your budget? It seems to me that far too many clients start out with an idea of costs without any actual trade input.

The biggest modification you could make woukd be to get rid of those ridiculous downlights - there's the best part of a £grand per flat, right there.

Lets look at the facts:-

blah, blah, blah...

The fact you consistently overlook is that no tradesman will commit himself to a price without actually seeing the job. Despite your detailed drawings, this only tells part of the story. It is only natural that estimates elicited via a forum will err on the side of caution. Get some real-world quotes.

Personally it's hard for me to imagine a more attractive contract for a domestic installer.

Oh, I can think of much more attractive contracts. Especially ones where the client trusts the tradesman to quote fairly, then get on and do the job. I know you are trying to keep down costs and I understand why you are interested in what is involved. But you have to realise that there are two parties to this contract... and they both have to get on with each other.

The more questions a client asks, the more the tradesman will feel he is not being trusted and become defensive in his responses.

So for the benefit of us DIYers could you breakdown how you arrived at £5500 for my job. Cheers

I feel I have already broken down the costs as far as is reasonable. By this stage I fear that, in real life, I would have written you off as an unreasonable client and I would be tempted not to take your calls. I hope you're not offended by that, but we often fail to understand our interpersonal relationships. In my experience the client who asks the most questions, especially regarding costs, is the most likely not to award the contract... often with a sigh of relief fromn the tradesman involved.

I hope that answers your queries and I wish you well in your further enquiries.

 

[securespark]

I'll do it for 1250 all in.

Now.

Does that:

a) sound more like it,

or

b) are you s*itting yourself wondering how many corners I'm going to cut, whether I'm registered, have PL, etc?

 

[Monsoon]

Monsoon, dont forget someone has to come back when the plasterboard is fitted and fit the socket and switch plates.

I did work out the £1500 labour - its £250 per day per man - about £25-33 per hour, which i must say seems a bit expensive, but then i'm from yorkshire and have to blow the cobwebs out of my wallet when i open it

You see the 25-33ph doesnt phase(sp) me It's the fact that I would be paying the electricians assistant( the labourer) £250 per day. Of course you and I know that the assistant will get his £70-80 per day making the sparkies rate £420 per day which just doesn't stack up in my eyes.

 

[Monsoon]

But on what did you base your budget?

My budget is based on reference to 'The Housebuilder's Bible by Mark Brinkley'

Their benchmark house is a large 4 bed house 200m2, ensuite, bathroom, downstair shower room, sun room, office, garage etc etc ... the spec. is:-

Sockets 41
Lights 62
switches 23
Ext Lights 3
TV & Phone 11
Power units & RCDs 5
Smoke detectors 3
Fans 4
Shave points 3

Labour based on that installation @ £30ph ..... £2400

In comparision to my one bed flat at a 1/4 of the size.

It seems to me that far too many clients start out with an idea of costs without any actual trade input.

I think its natural for people to have an idea of what they feel is reasonable and a website like this really helps to get trade input.

The biggest modification you could make woukd be to get rid of those ridiculous downlights - there's the best part of a £grand per flat, right there.

I've binned my lovely downlights at least most of them. It's a party floor between flats, so as you know I need fire/acoustic rated downlights hence loads of £££££££££££

The fact you consistently overlook is that no tradesman will commit himself to a price without actually seeing the job. Despite your detailed drawings, this only tells part of the story. It is only natural that estimates elicited via a forum will err on the side of caution. Get some real-world quotes.

Fair point and I understand it was just a guide.

The more questions a client asks, the more the tradesman will feel he is not being trusted and become defensive in his responses.

I feel I have already broken down the costs as far as is reasonable. By this stage I fear that, in real life, I would have written you off as an unreasonable client and I would be tempted not to take your calls. I hope you're not offended by that, but we often fail to understand our interpersonal relationships. In my experience the client who asks the most questions, especially regarding costs, is the most likely not to award the contract... often with a sigh of relief forum the tradesman involved.

Well it is a Q&A forum so I make no excuses for asking questions. Especially as I have, on several occassions thanked you for your contribution. I fully understand that as a professional tradesman on here you owe us nothing. So thanks again.

 

[Monsoon]

I'll do it for 1250 all in.

Now.

Does that:

a) sound more like it,

or

b) are you s*itting yourself wondering how many corners I'm going to cut, whether I'm registered, have PL, etc?

Thats more like it PL certificated req'ed . Payment as soon as Buidling Control signs off your work

 

[dingbat]

You see the 25-33ph doesnt phase(sp) me It's the fact that I would be paying the electricians assistant( the labourer) £250 per day. Of course you and I know that the assistant will get his £70-80 per day making the sparkies rate £420 per day which just doesn't stack up in my eyes.

Not so. If you engage my services, my brother and I share equally in the profits. If I employed a labourer I'd have to spend a lot of time supervising... and worrying about whether he'd actually turn up every day. But, as I've said, the details of the finances need not be your concern. If the overall quote is too high for you, you have a choice to go with another firm - arguing about the division of the spoils is unlikely to be helpful in establishing a good working relationship.

I'm aware that in the anonymous world of online forums you can probe a little further, but you'll get short shrift in the real world if you start asking tradesmen how much they are paying their assistants. Your best bet now is to put your theory into practice and call in some real life sparks to quote.

I think you'll have a less stressfull time over all if you can find tradesmen that you trust to do a consistently good job without having to worry about how they spend your cash.

All the best.

 

[bondy]

My budget is based on reference to 'The Housebuilder's Bible by Mark Brinkley'

hi, just joined this forum. have picked up the threads. ive just built a house from the ground up. i live in herts and my personal opinion is that mark brinklys bible, although content wise is very good. his prices are not accurate. in the real world, you cannot get good brickies or chippies, etc for love nor money. therefore, its a supply and demand thing. you end up paying for it.

 

[Monsoon]

I think you'll have a less stressfull time over all if you can find tradesmen that you trust to do a consistently good job without having to worry about how they spend your cash.

All the best.

Cheers - I'd like to think all the trades that I employ on my job will earn a reasonable wage, at least then they will be keen to follow me onto new projects. If I, as the developer dont keep a tight reign on costs then we all lose out as you cant put work peoples way if you're 'out of business'

 

[Monsoon]

My budget is based on reference to 'The Housebuilder's Bible by Mark Brinkley'

hi, just joined this forum. have picked up the threads. ive just built a house from the ground up. i live in herts and my personal opinion is that mark brinklys bible, although content wise is very good. his prices are not accurate. in the real world, you cannot get good brickies or chippies, etc for love nor money. therefore, its a supply and demand thing. you end up paying for it.

Bondy, You are right that it comes down to a lot of factors but I thought £30ph is a good price for any sparky to earn. I'm sure many around the country would be pleased to earn that on a new build.

The constant in this should be the time taken to do the job. Again if you are talking about a new build then there really shouldnt be too many factors that affect this.

 

[bondy]

yes, agreed monsoon. all was straight forward. electrics wise, i did it myself. (have disq, etc.) but the brick and blockwork had to be farmed out. the brickies wanted £200 a day each but only wanted to work for 5 hours. £40 per hour. they are good brickies. could of got cheaper but didnt need the f*ck factor involved with employing p15s heads and idiots.

 

[Pensdown]

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52596

I cant understand why you think Dingbat's quote is high. I advised you that an average sparks would want between 5&7 man days and Dingbats only wants 6. As a rough guide if you cost the materials and x by 40-45% that will give you the rough labour cost for your type of project.

Of course you can penny pinch it down by a few bob but having a sparks you can trust is worth more in the long run.

 

[RF Lighting]

Monsoon, have you read the forum rules?
See rules numbers 9 & 20

 

[Pensdown]

Monsoon, have you read the forum rules?
See rules numbers 9 & 20

I guess not if you read his posts in the builders section which I've only just done. He's a bit out of order as the flats are a commercial project and this is a DIY site

 

[Monsoon]

Monsoon, have you read the forum rules?
See rules numbers 9 & 20

If you have a look at the thread I opened it was headed up

'Rewire (see drawing.jpg) How long will it take?'

I specifically avoided the whole cost thing.

Of course it was the OP who wanted to know if £350 was too much for her kitchen rewire.

I think there has been a pretty good discussion and perhaps discussions on prices for electrics is more relevant post part p where it is more costly to DIY your electrics than before.

 

[Monsoon]

Monsoon, have you read the forum rules?
See rules numbers 9 & 20

I guess not if you read his posts in the builders section which I've only just done. He's a bit out of order as the flats are a commercial project and this is a DIY site

Yeah I've bought a property and want to convert it into a couple of flats. Where's the problem? ... some of the work I'll DIY and some i'll get the pro's in.

The thread in building is asking advice on how to DIY an opening for French Doors.
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52831

Added to the fact that there is nothing in the rules that prevents you asking questions on projects outside of work on your home.

And finally my initial response to the OP was good guidance on costing her job. So I'm already putting my newly found knowledge to good use by helping others

P.s. Your breaking rule 20 BTW - Have a nice day