Kitchen rewire quote- too much?

[the_jinj]

Scotland has escaped the whole Part P (for now) and imho it is easier for a spark to make a living - not everything in notifieable and mostly stuff in flats as opposed to houses.
To refit and change the electrics etc in a kitchen would generally not need a warrant.
Have a look at http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/current_standards/pdfs/sch 3 guidance-electrical.pdf

 

[JohnD]

Monsoon, I see what you're saying, but I still say that the cost of materials as viewed by the customer is very different to the true cost of materials used. For a larger job such as yours there may be an advantage and in your current and projected position in development it makes sense to know your costings, but on one-off jobs, such as the OP's, it can lead to misunderstanding.

Some time back I went through an exercise of costing out very carefully what I had actually used over a period of time and what I had charged my customers. I was shocked to find that I had only charged customers for the cable and accessories supplied and that the numerous sundries were effectively coming out of my labour rate. I now have a daily rate to cover sundries, insurance costs, scheme memberships, training, transport, work clothes, advertising, stationery, etc, etc and this cost is factored into the jobs I do. It's part of the cost of keeping me in business before I even start to earn a wage.

So, a quote for adding a couple of sockets might look like this:

Materials - £5.00
Labour - £50
Sundries - £30

Which looks like I am trying to rip you off. Yet £85 for two new sockets is entirely reasonable.

Arr, Jim lad, that's what, in the Saloon Bar of "The Quill and Abacus" we call Apportionment of Overheads.

Two simple ways of doing it:

Add 'em all up for a year, if your charges are mostly labour-based, add up all your revenue-earning hours for the year. Suppose your overheads are £10,000 and you do 1,000 chargable hours per year - add on an extra tenner an hour.

If your charges are mostly material-based, and your input material costs are £50,000, then add £1 to your charge for every £10 of materials costs.

It is usually "unfair" or will make your pricing either uncompetitive or unprofitable on some jobs, if you add a flat rate per job.

Try not to call it "Sundries" unless it is very small, or your customers will think, as they do in garages "What! £20 for a squirt of WD40 and the cost of the Swarfega?"

 

[blainey]

The_jinj - thanks for that link. I've been looking all over for that info.

 

[Pensdown]

Time & time again people spend far to much time worrying if their being ripped off instead of looking at what their getting for their money. A good sparks will cost more and will be in demand. Good materials also cost more, sometime quite a bit more.

Most customers who ask for a labour and materials breakdown come across as if they don't trust you. This puts most most trades off so they don't even bother quoting. A clear brief and a fixed price is all thats required and that can be compared with others like for like.

By all means ask for a schedule of works so you know if you've missed something but don't ask for a labour and materials breakdown otherwise you will put off good tradesmen.

 

[baldelectrician]

blainey
The price seems fair (tenement flat walls can be a pain to core)
No part P here, just make sure the spark can certify the work. Also check the link given above.

Don't get caught out. If the job is in a flat maisonette or house above two storeys you need a building warrant- permission from the local council that can take upto 14 weeks to arrive (before work starts)

have my own version of the cross reference chart on my website- most of the jargon is explained below on my one.
Remember the singly survey scheme will arrive next year- so the surveyor will ask for paperwork before the house will go on sale.


http://www.baldelectrician.com/buildingstds/warrant.pdf

 

[dingbat]

JohnD. That's pretty much what I did. I worked it out to a figure I have to cover on a daily basis, based on my average number of working days. Smaller jobs get charged pro-rata. But you're right; it's easy to overlook and, as you say, many tradesmen do not earn anywhere near what their labour rate might suggest.

I have never yet been asked to submit a breakdown of costs. In fact I hardly ever get asked for a written quotation. Most people don't care and simply want the bottom line. I know my pricing is around the midpoint of the range and I get the majority of jobs I quote for because (I like to believe, at least) I do a good job and treat my customers with the utmost respect.

Monsoon, working on your estimate now...

 

[dingbat]

Monsoon, understanding that it's a theoretical situation and working from your materials list, I'd be looking for somewhere around £2750 (all inclusive - supply and fit) for each flat, three working days (two men) in each, with 'materials' coming in at about the £1250 mark.

Of course, I would never actually quote for a job without seeing it and discussing options and specification first hand with the client.

Hope that helps.

 

[Pensdown]

I would say that quotes spot on Dingbat. 6 man days and a 60-40 split labour and materials.

 

[Monsoon]

Monsoon, understanding that it's a theoretical situation and working from your materials list, I'd be looking for somewhere around £2750 (all inclusive - supply and fit) for each flat, three working days (two men) in each, with 'materials' coming in at about the £1250 mark.

Of course, I would never actually quote for a job without seeing it and discussing options and specification first hand with the client.

Hope that helps.

Cheers for taking the time to work it out.

Just so I understand the workings
£2750 per flat made up of £1250 mats and £1500 lab?

 

[dingbat]

[£2750 per flat made up of £1250 mats and £1500 lab?

C'rect.

 

[the_jinj]

By the way blainey - If you feel that's too expensive and you'd like another quote give me a shout - I'm based in Glasgow too

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Arr, Jim lad, that's what, in the Saloon Bar of "The Quill and Abacus" we call Apportionment of Overheads.

I was once amused by this quote from a (possibly ficticious) legal bill.

To crossing The Strand having seen you on the other side, in order to discuss the case - 1 guinea.

To recrossing The Strand, having drawn closer and realised I was mistaken in my identification - 1 guinea.

 

[Monsoon]

[£2750 per flat made up of £1250 mats and £1500 lab?

C'rect.

Dingbat dont take this the wrong way but that seems much more than I budgeted for. Maybe I need modify my design to get it within my budget

Lets look at the facts:-

1. It's a modest sized 1 bed flat (50m2)
2. It's vacant with no furniture and no furnishings
3. Exposed stud walls and suspended ceiling.
3. No chasing No lifting of floorboards No plasterboard.
4. Its a full rewire and therefore no need to sort out anyone elses mess
5. I'm using plastic pipe for plumbing(water) - Reduced earth bonding.

Added to all the above whoever gets the contact will get *2 identical rewires*

Personally it's hard for me to imagine a more attractive contract for a domestic installer. Considering many rewires are in peoples house with chasing walls - moving furniture and carpets - trying to keep the dust levels down - lifting chipboard flooring without damaging it - sorting out the mess someone else has left behind etc etc.

I know you are not canvassing for business and you seem like a very upfront helpful guy. So for the benefit of us DIYers could you breakdown how you arrived at £5500 for my job. Cheers

 

[JohnD]

There's a saying in my line of work:

"Nothing is impossible













For the man who doesn't have to do it himself"

 

[Steve]

Monsoon, dont forget someone has to come back when the plasterboard is fitted and fit the socket and switch plates.

I did work out the £1500 labour - its £250 per day per man - about £25-33 per hour, which i must say seems a bit expensive, but then i'm from yorkshire and have to blow the cobwebs out of my wallet when i open it