Ah! I thought you may say that but surely when advising a novice who will be unable to spot misinformation or disinformation can you be over-concerned with correctness of detail?
Please Help!
- Thread starter pebbles36
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I agree that, in that situation, one cannot be over-concerned about the correctness of relevant detail. However, as we all know, when used in a derogatory sense, 'pedanticism' usually refers to an obsession with trivial, often essentially irrelevant, matters of detail.
The serious point is that that unnecessary discussion about trivial matters of detail may make it difficult for a novice to identify, and focus on, the things which really matter most.
Kind Regards, John.
TBH, I am a professional spark and when I came across your post about RP, you scared the hell out of me!
Unfortunately, if I was a DIY'er and came across your post I probably would not realise the significance of it, but if I did, then I'd be inclined to go elsewhere!
Better to quote rules and regulations than to go about not even knowing the basics.
20 years experience......
In all your years of experience you've never inadvertantly connected loop to live, or live to loop (even someone with an IQ of 10 can get neutral into the Neutral terminal (unless they are colourblind) - which can happen so let's not mock the afflicted).
What happens when you cross connect loop & live?
The lights switch on but not off, stay on but won't switch off? Don't come on at all???
Surely the RCD would trip? No? Can't be an earth to live fault then.
Let's go and have another look at the ceiling rose, ah yes, the loop got popped into the switched live connection (rammed in more like because in a standard ceiling rose there's usually only two terminals for the switched live to go in but hey, who knows what's out there, maybe even a few termination blocks and then shoved back up into the ceiling void but I can live with that, after all, a colour is just a colour and a copper wire is just a copper wire until it's identified).
Now let's suggest to the consumer (you know, the guy paying the bills who is also doing his damndest to save some cash) that "his wiring is all over the place, he needs to be rewired, he needs XYZ in ABC and that'll be £500 please Sir.
p.s. The Regs say you *have* to get this done!!! Trust me, I'm a professional!!!"
Poor DIY guy, he's slam-dunked, out of his depth, no test equipment and all he wanted was a few lousy lights in a part of the house he rarely uses.
Shame you you 'Professionals'!
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I don't quite know what you're trying to say.
And I can't see what this has to with your suggestion that RP could affect whether a light does or does not switch on or off.
And I can't see what this has to with your suggestion that RP could affect whether a light does or does not switch on or off.
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I think that , despite all those years of experience, (s)he has got the jargon a bit wrong, and is talking about transposed connections (L and 'loop' in a celing rose) rather than true 'reversed polarity'.
Kind Regards, John.
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Ah. Something that folk with 20 years experience fall prey to all the time!
Although in my quarter century +, I can count on the thumbs of one hand (no I was not born in Norfolk) the number of times I have found the loop in the SL terminals.
Although in my quarter century +, I can count on the thumbs of one hand (no I was not born in Norfolk) the number of times I have found the loop in the SL terminals.
Ah. Something that folk with 20 years experience fall prey to all the time!
Although in my quarter century +, I can count on the thumbs of one hand (no I was not born in Norfolk) the number of times I have found the loop in the SL terminals.
That's right, cos the lights wouldn't work if the previous 'sparky' had done that and then tried to switch them on. The customer wouldn't let him leave without working lights, surely not? Yes? No?
So we boil down to whether or not the OP has a goddam earth or not on his Class II lights (which has'nt been established as he hasn't posted since the question was asked), and after taking all that into account (plus the fact he's only changed the pendant (and the lights worked fine before he did that)) - it just means that all... you... 'sparkies'... have got nothing better to do than quote semantics, rules, Regs, and whatever else you feel qualifies you to post as an 'expert' if it means your post count goes up, your life is one atom less boring than it was before, and someone somewhere actually cares about anything you have to say. About. Anything.
Someone seems to care and is writing more than anyone else.
**o****
**o****
'Pedant' is not a phrase, it's a word.
That doesn't take long.
There are only 2 in it.
You still haven't explained what on earth you think you mean by this.
Please, go into great detail as to why some Class II light fittings might require an earth connection...
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Ah. Something that folk with 20 years experience fall prey to all the time!
Although in my quarter century +, I can count on the thumbs of one hand (no I was not born in Norfolk) the number of times I have found the loop in the SL terminals.
That's right, cos the lights wouldn't work if the previous 'sparky' had done that and then tried to switch them on. The customer wouldn't let him leave without working lights, surely not? Yes? No?
Yes, they would actually, in my experience. Seriously.
Over the last six years working as a maintenance and call-out electrician, I have genuinely had a couple of hundred call-outs every year from customers left stitched up by "electricians" who know nothing about what they are doing.
They really don't care less. I've had countless customers, many of them vulnerable, left with no power, no lights, some left with live conductors sticking out of walls and ceilings, even one or two with aborted board changes.
So believe me when I say I am better-placed than most to come across this situation you describe.
Moving on to the Class II issue, as raised by Grizzly, above and John, previously:
Class II fittings by definition are double insulated and do not require an earth connection.
In fact, to fit one may well be dangerous.
These fittings, as you should know, are identified by the symbol of a square within a square.
Class I fittings do require an earth connection.
For further clarification, please read the definitions: I highly recommend BGB.
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But being the centre of attention for all the wrong reasons.
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