Plug top wired incorrectly!

[securespark]

Went to attend a cooker fault on Friday.

Cooker "gone off"

Find loose connection on neutral pin in old plug which customer has removed.

Change outlet and check plug wiring - f**k me.....earth conductor to live pin and live conductor to earth pin.......


Oh, and some people have been debating whether lighting circuits can exceed 10A.

In Makro in Eccles, they have flu lighting on the shelving, fed from Wylex 206 units with B16 breakers, and the flu's are wired in flex.

 

[journeyman]

Find loose connection on neutral pin in old plug which customer has removed.

Change outlet and check plug wiring - f**k me.....earth conductor to live pin and live conductor to earth pin.......

That is why the plugs and sockets regulations were introduced. Only thing is, some electricians insist on using sockets that are not suitable for the BS1363 plugs that come with all portable luminaires. So in some posh domestic installations, one can expect to find that a perfectly wired BS1363 plug has been replaced by a badly wired BS546 plug.

Such is life.

 

[securespark]

Back onto this topic again?

Journeyman seems desperate for another argument, as this topic had nothing to do with portable luminaires whatsoever.

BS 546, from memory, originated in the 50's and refers to round pin plugs and socket outlets in various sizes. Some plugs manufactured to 546 had fuses incorporated into them.

In any case, even if they don't, the circuit protective device will limit current drawn by the circuit.

 

[journeyman]

It is related because my old argument was about badly wired plugtops and how to prevent them. Some leglislation was introduced to help solve the problem, but it was not a one hunderd percent cure. Maybe it should be made illegal for non qualified people to wire plugtops. A little bit of controversy there. (As in Australia)

As the the wiring in Makro, I would not let anyone who calls themself an electrician touch my wiring. There are too many cowboys out there, that give the good boys a bad name.

I would rather do it myself. That way, it gets done to the BS7671 standard and I save some money. Plus, I can used switched BS1363 sockets for lighting just to be a smart arse.

Mind you, wiring a house to a standard written by a beaurocrat and a plumber might not be that safe.

 

[AdamW]

Maybe it should be made illegal for non qualified people to wire plugtops. A little bit of controversy there. (As in Australia)

The day they propose that I am buying a big bag of plugs and fuses.

I am already considering buying a reel of 2.5mm and a reel of 1.5mm black and red T&E so when I buy a new house I can maintain the wiring without going to the effort of sleeving all the old wiring to new colours the first time I extend a ring or fit some new lights.

Thinking about this rationally, it is illegal to work on your gas unless you are CORGI registered. However have a look in your nearest shed and you will see gas fittings (including screw-in wall fittings) and the dodgiest item of them all: the rubber cooker hose.

So, even if they made it illegal to work on plugtops or anything else electrical, you would still be able to buy them.

Heck, I found one of those "Good Ideas" leaflets in Wickes the other day that suggests replacing your combi boiler is an easy task for DIY! Not until the second page (and only for about 3 lines) does it mention that it needs a professional.

 

[Big_Spark]

It is related because my old argument was about badly wired plugtops and how to prevent them. Some leglislation was introduced to help solve the problem, but it was not a one hunderd percent cure. Maybe it should be made illegal for non qualified people to wire plugtops. A little bit of controversy there. (As in Australia)

As the the wiring in Makro, I would not let anyone who calls themself an electrician touch my wiring. There are too many cowboys out there, that give the good boys a bad name.

I would rather do it myself. That way, it gets done to the BS7671 standard and I save some money. Plus, I can used switched BS1363 sockets for lighting just to be a smart ****.

Mind you, wiring a house to a standard written by a beaurocrat and a plumber might not be that safe.

Journey, that argument indicates that you seem to have very little knowledge of the electrical industry.

Yes there are cowboys out there, there are in all industries unfortunately, but your supposition that you know better than a time served Electrician is frankly laughable. Your two posts in this thread imply that all electricians are dodgy.

Your comments about sockets clearly show you know bugtger all about them, you have simply plucked a couple of BS numbers out of your brain. The ONLY socket a BS1363 plug will fit into is a BS1363 Socket-outlet. There is no way that plugs and sockets with different BS numbers are interchangeable, that is the whole point of them being different.

It is smug arrogance that resulted in 42 DIY electricians dieing in the UK last year, they were too tight and stupid to know not what they were doing and died as a result.

Asking DIY questions and doing the odd thing around the home is one thing, but believing you know better than a qualified spark is the sort of thinking that causes deaths.

 

[journeyman]

I can not remember in post the bit where I said you can fit anything other than a BS1363 plug into a BS1363 socket.

At no point did I say or even imply that all electricians are dodgy. The fact is that that most people in all industries are good solid hard workers. However, I do not think that wiring a house is beyond the advanced DIY person. After all, Learning to wire a house requires an understanding of maths, a little bit of physics, a good understanding of English, ability to work with ones hands, common sense and a pride in doing a good job.

The fact is I have seen dodgy renovation work done by supposedly qualified electricians. Anybody can get a qualification. Caring about the quality of ones work is not something one can not get a qualification for.

You only have to look at the posts on this forum to see that there are people who are doing DIY electrical work, that should not be. Conversely, I have seen posts on other forums that show some pretty dodgy work that has been done by people charging for electrical work.

It may well be that the majority of sparks do good quality work. But there are some people who are either not qualified or do not care, that work in the industry. I do not know how many of these people there are. Maybe the government should bring out part "x", to get rid of such people.

If I had no idea about anything electrical then I might end up employing one of these idiots to do some work for me. Having no electrical knowledge, I would be none the wiser. My solution to this problem is to learn how to do it for myself.

Do not automatically assume that all DIY electrical work is a bad thing. The fact is, some of it probably exceeds the quality of work done by people charging for such work, whether they be properly qualified or not.


Adam, you can work on your own gas, without being CORGI registered, but it is a bit of a grey area. I would not touch gas myself.

 

[Big_Spark]

That is why the plugs and sockets regulations were introduced. Only thing is, some electricians insist on using sockets that are not suitable for the BS1363 plugs that come with all portable luminaires. So in some posh domestic installations, one can expect to find that a perfectly wired BS1363 plug has been replaced by a badly wired BS546 plug.

What about that?

I would not let anyone who calls themself an electrician touch my wiring. There are too many cowboys out there

And that?

Perhaps not your intention, but read the above comments and you will understand my reply.

At the end of the day I do not insist on driving the bus when going to the Pub, so why should the Bus driver insist on doing my job? I need to earn a living too.

 

[salem2000]

OUCH.

 

[journeyman]

My post said that there are too many cowboys out there. These are the people that concern me. Not the legit sparks. As for my comment about the lighting sockets. you should read the original thread about lighting sockets.

here

I know that you detest DIY, and that yes you need to earn a living. But if Story musgrave can get six degrees, then it is not beyond the ability of some people to have a day job as an astronaut for example, and learn the skills to rewire a house to a high standard, and test the installation using the same test gear that a spark would use.

Do not assume that DIY electrics is a bad thing because some people do it badly. Some professionals do it badly as well. Some people claiming to be professionals do it badly as well.

The fact is, I live in a house which is 3 years old. The electrical system was designed, but due to a lack of the right part an alteration was made that whilst safe; I consider to be of bad design (and most inconvenient). My girlfriend who bought the house was fobbed of by the house builders, saying it was a change of design.

I will do my own electrics. I am satisfied that I can do it to the required standard. I can buy the best quality kit and still save a lot money.

 

[kendor]

And until the day that they bring electrics under the same controls as gas requiring that only Qualified Professionals are able to undertake the work then DIY will continue!

I've never understood why it took an electrician 5 years of study and practical to be able to be called qualified when anyone "competant" can dabble in electrics! when the potential to cause injury or death is just as real as it is for gas.

As i have said before although i agree with the fact that the unexperienced shouldn't dabble, the way things stand you can't stop them.

 

[Big_Spark]

I know that you detest DIY, and that yes you need to earn a living. But if Story musgrave can get six degrees, then it is not beyond the ability of some people to have a day job as an astronaut for example, and learn the skills to rewire a house to a high standard, and test the installation using the same test gear that a spark would use.

Do not assume that DIY electrics is a bad thing because some people do it badly. Some professionals do it badly as well. Some people claiming to be professionals do it badly as well.

I will do my own electrics. I am satisfied that I can do it to the required standard. I can buy the best quality kit and still save a lot money.

Story Musgrave and DIY have absolutely NOTHING in common. You might be interested to know that THREE of the Six degree are actually Honourary, awarded for research he took part in. Please do not think I am Knocking him, just setting the record straight.

Regarding DIY, you stated I detest it, please buy a dictionary and look up the meaning of the work detest. I do not agree with UNQUALIFIED people doing electrical work, that is not the same as DIY electrical work. I do work at home, that is DIY, however I am Qualified to do it.

My car has been modified, it will go nearly 150mph, even though it is only a 2ltr Vectra, many years ago I won a weeks rally course with Gordon McRae (Colin McRae's Father) at his school, then in Nth Wales. I learnt how to drive a car very fast on various road surfaces, I CAN do it, but that does not mean I should do it, I certainly do not treat the public roads as a race track.

DIY Electrical is the same. If you want to do it, become an Electrician.

I accept there are GOOD DIY Electricians out there, and there are BAD Electricians too, however, the VAST majority of DIY electricians are TERRIBLE, they have no real understanding of electricity, electrical theory, circuit design, fault finding, testing or even health and safety. I know this due to the amount of calls we get in this office about DIY that has gone wrong, or been found to be dangerous by an Inspect and Test etc. We are but one contractor, our sister company gets as many calls, and other Contractors MUST get their fair share as we are not unique.

I will grant you that there is a core of posters here that do know what they are talking about, and I mean the non-qualified posters, however they are NOT the majority here, and certainly are the minority in the nation as a whole.

 

[Studders]

I will grant you that there is a core of posters here that do know what they are talking about, and I mean the non-qualified posters, however they are NOT the majority here, and certainly are the minority in the nation as a whole.

I think that is a fair enough assesment of the general situation re DIY work. having read many of the threads, on all subjects, I often get a cold chill run down my spine. I pity the poor sods who might buy or move into a house 'rewired' , 'replumbed' or 'modernised' by someone who in all faith thinks they are doing it right but who have merely created a time bomb.
I'm all for doing DIY and I loathe parting with my hard earned if I can avoid it, that said I do research very thoroughly before I undertake anything. I am amazed at the number of posts where x says "I've tried to wire a 'thingy' and it's gone wrong - what wire should go where?' ???
It often seems to be a distinct lack of common sense that causes dangereous situations rather than a lack of technical knowledge.

 

[journeyman]

I accept there are GOOD DIY Electricians out there, and there are BAD Electricians too, however, the VAST majority of DIY electricians are TERRIBLE, they have no real understanding of electricity, electrical theory, circuit design, fault finding, testing or even health and safety. I know this due to the amount of calls we get in this office about DIY that has gone wrong, or been found to be dangerous by an Inspect and Test etc. We are but one contractor, our sister company gets as many calls, and other Contractors MUST get their fair share as we are not unique.

I find it unlikely that you will get calls about DIY that has gone right.

There are indeed many people who do DIY electrics that should not be doing it. You only have to look at some of the posts on this forum to see that. There are also some professionals that should not be doing it. These will always be the case.


People having electrics done on their house fall into four groups that I can identify.

1. Those that DIY, and do it to properly.

2. Those that DIY and do it badly.

3. Those that get a good professional.

4. Those that get a bad profesional.

Those in group 1 are the best off. They can spend the least amount of money for a good safe job. Or spend more money on the best kit and still save.

Those in group 2 get it done cheap but put themselves and others at risk.

Those in group 3 spend more but get a good safe job.

Those in group 4 get the worst deal.

It would be interesting if someone could do a national survey to find out how many people fall into each group.

It is up to the individual to decide on the best course of action. However I do not believe that it is necessary to become a qualified electrician to do DIY electrics. One only has to learn the skills necessary, taking exams is an optional extra.

I will stick to my DIY electrics. I do not see the point in paying someone to do something that I can do just as well myself.



I

 

[il78]

One group you missed.....

The DIYers who "think" they have done a decent job....but in fact its totally sh*t......

Just to side with what Jim said about his car, I ride a motorbike and I know how to maintain / repair it, but one thing I wont do myself is the brakes....I dont think you need to know why....some things need the professional / qualified touch........