Safety Lockout

[ollski]

The BG guy measured at the boiler.

Another example of BG incompetence. Any gas engineer worthy of the name should know that only reduced pressure at the meter is Transco responsibility.

Not neccessarily chris, in the same way as the pressure at the meter is transcos the pressure before the appliance inlet is not anything to do with a BG contract.

 

[chrishutt]

Not necessarily chris

But as I understand it, the BG guy told the customer the problem was down to Transco, which he cannot have known (or even had good grounds for suspecting) without checking meter outlet pressure.

As a consequence of being told it was down to Transco, the customer wasted a lot of time and energy on arranging multiple visits. Is that a fair summary Penster?

What's more, why did BG take on the maintenance contract in the first place when the low boiler inlet pressure would have been apparent from the outset? They entered into the contract knowing that the inlet pressure was low, and now they should fulfill their obligation to repair.

 

[Penster]

he cannot have known (or even had good grounds for suspecting) without checking meter outlet pressure.

To be fair to BG (which I'm loathed to do at the mo) they could've checked it at the meter afterwards because the meter is outside and I didn't hand around to see what he did.

But thinking back, a strange thing did happen. The first BG guy said it was more than likely the gas pressure which Transco would be able to fix. After Transco had come over and checked the pressure and then left, I rung BG and they already had an appt made for another engineer to come back. If the first BG was sure that Transco would fix it, why would he then make an appt for another engineer to come out?

What's more, why did BG take on the maintenance contract in the first place when the low boiler inlet pressure would have been apparent from the outset? They entered into the contract knowing that the inlet pressure was low, and now they should fulfill their obligation to repair.

Thats true. The boiler passed the initial inspection so now I guess they should fulfil their obligation and repair faults even if it is within a month of me moving in?

 

[ollski]

Not necessarily chris

But as I understand it, the BG guy told the customer the problem was down to Transco, which he cannot have known (or even had good grounds for suspecting) without checking meter outlet pressure.

As a consequence of being told it was down to Transco, the customer wasted a lot of time and energy on arranging multiple visits. Is that a fair summary Penster?

What's more, why did BG take on the maintenance contract in the first place when the low boiler inlet pressure would have been apparent from the outset? They entered into the contract knowing that the inlet pressure was low, and now they should fulfill their obligation to repair.

Oh don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting the advice has been perfect, but I presume the engineer measured the pressure at the inlet and discovered it low meaning it was not BGs responsibility, therefore advise a transco visit to see if it's their responsibility, it isn't therefore its the customers responsibility.
Also with regard to the initial visit, I would presume it was working ok with no lockouts and sufficient pressure otherwise the contract would have been refused.

 

[chrishutt]

To be fair to BG (which I'm loathed to do at the mo) they could've checked it at the meter afterwards because the meter is outside and I didn't hand around to see what he did.

Well if the BG guy had checked the meter outlet pressure, he would have had to do it with boiler running, so he would have had to ask you to run the boiler and you would have known.

Anyway the initial meter outlet reading of 20 mb is only fractionally below the norm (21 mb) and clearly doesn't explain a boiler inlet pressure of 15 mb. The problem is clearly with internal pipework. Just so you know, the acceptable pressure drop between meter and appliance is 1 mb (so should be 20 mb at appliance), whereas your pressure drop is at least 5 mb.

 

[Penster]

The problem is clearly with internal pipework.

What are my options and what solutions are available?

 

[chrishutt]

In general a combi boiler will require a gas supply mostly in 22mm copper, although in most cases the boiler inlet takes 15mm. The likelihood is that too much of the pipe run is in 15mm tube, in which case some of this should be replaced with 22mm.

Obviously the section to replace is that which is most easily accessible. BG are likely to be a lot more expensive than independents, so don't accept their quote. It may not be necessary to bring pipework entirely up to standard (1mb drop) to get boiler inlet pressure above 15mb.

Note that the above is true for typical situations, but your case may be different and will need to be individually accessed. It depends very much on the length of the run from meter to boiler.

 

[Penster]

I'm slightly worried now about what I've gotten myself into here!

I hope this doesn't all cost too much.....what do you think the odds are of postponing Christmas

Thanks for all your advice guys - mucho gracias

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

Jeezz what a bunch of tosssseerrs, the first guy who visited you from the very beggining should have been able to identify what the problrm was and then inform you of what was needed to rectify it, for feks sake get on the phone and bollllok BG up hill an down dale to get this sorted, YOUR PAYING THROUGH THE NOSE for a fekin service contract, MAKE THE PRATTS SORT IT NOW.

 

[chrishutt]

mucho gracias

If you're going to be pretentious, at least get it right - it's muchas gracias (feminine plural).

 

[ollski]

Ever feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall . I will try to put it a simply as I can:
Boiler is on contract from the inlet to the appliance, the gas supply up to the appliance is not covered.

Manufacturer says appliance must have 18 mb inlet pressure, it has 15....how can further fault find be carried out when it falls at the first hurdle?

Two seperate visits have confirmed the problem and they are saying they will charge to come again to say the same thing, so what I am saying is ring in a complaint to get a lead engineer round who will / should delve deeper into the problem for you.

No one has said the gas pipe is undersized it may simply be blocked / partly restricted.

 

[chrishutt]

OK ollski, you have a point. If the boiler inlet pressure was OK before (when boiler was accepted for contract cover by BG) but has suddenly deteriorated (due to blockage) then that is something that BG cannot be held responsible for rectifying.

However the fact remains that two BG engineers appear to have failed to carry out the basic check (meter outlet pressure) to determine where the fault lay, which I think is inexcusable.

Perhaps Penster can tell us when the boiler was accepted by BG for contract cover, and if they carried out any basic checks (e.g. burner pressure) at the time.

 

[Penster]

Well, today I decided to carry on banging my head against a brick wall with BG because, afterall, I do pay them for a service.

So, another BG guy came round measured the pressure, and lo and behold, told me its fine! He's the first BG guy to actually look at the sticker on the boiler that says it only needs 11mb (not 15mb that the other guy said!). So now I'm well confused and have no idea who or what to believe. I mentioned the venturi thing that was first mentioned to me and he agreed it could be a problem so gave it a clean. Things were looking good but then the boiler decided to play up again and lock-out. The BG guy didn't know what to do really. Poked around but didn't actually do much. Said he done all that could be done and we'd have to start replacing certain parts until the problem goes away. So, after having spent most of the weekend being stuck at home waiting for various engineers to unsuccessfully repair the boiler, I have to take a day off work on Tuesday and spend another day at home hoping that finally this BG engineer will be my hero and finally fix the boiler!

Keep your fingers crossed for me?

And yep, when the BG guy did an initial check they did test the pressure.

 

[chrishutt]

He's the first BG guy to actually look at the sticker on the boiler that says it only needs 11mb

11.4 mb is the burner pressure requirement for the Halstead Finest. This is not the same as the inlet pressure, which must be substantially higher. Typically the BG guy confuses the two.

As for Tuesday, since each BG "engineer" has I think just 40 minutes to spend on your boiler, I suggest you arrange say 10 appointments at 45 minute intervals. Then you have an outside chance of getting to a solution by the end of the day.

Otherwise expect to have to take many more days of work whilst a succession of half-wits ineffectually poke and prod your boiler until you finally give in and get a new one. Aren't you glad you took out BG cover?

 

[ollski]

Sorry but these type posts really piis me off with just a blatant slagging off for BG, there are 1500 engineers, some good, some bad, some very experienced and some not so comments like typical BG incompetence wind me right up. You may now have a better engineer than the first who is undoubtedly a bit confused with your talk of pressures, but there is little that can be done on a Sunday for an intermittent problem and I presume he has arranged to return when BG and manufacturers helplines are available with his suspected part, so yes fingers crossed.

I work out that the annual service charge is 216, so taking tonys diagnostic charge of 84 and possibly a pcb at 250, you may well be over 100 better off on a contract....its not all bad.