Single switch - two lights - no diagram

[plugit]

Hi
I have looked at the Sticky and searched this forum (and Google images), but cannot find a good diagram for wiring single switch serving two light fittings. There are many variations, but not this, which must be a common requirement?

I have also looked in the IEE Electricians Guide - but alas, no diagram.

Apologies if this is a numpty question, or I have failed to spot a wiring diagram on this forum, but any guidance would be appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[EFLImpudence]

//www.diynot.com/wiki/_detail/...jpg?id=electrics:lighting:single_way_lighting

 

[plugit]

EFLImpudence

Thank you for your super-fast response. I did, in fact, see this diagram, but it does not show the continuity of the circuit - ie, feed and onward supply. (apologies for the vocabulary).

Also, I noted that it was dated 2002 - is this 17th Ed. compliant?

Regards

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I did, in fact, see this diagram, but it does not show the continuity of the circuit - ie, feed and onward supply.

So?

Seriously, if you're struggling with something this simple, I strongly suggest you take a break from fiddling with things and spend some time exploring these:

• http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=electrical+circuits+101
  
  
• http://kevinboone.net/electricity.html
  
  
• http://web.archive.org/web/20080213151445/http://www.kevinboone.com/domesticinstallations.html
  
  
• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:books
  
  
• //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics[/list]

 

[EFLImpudence]

I did, in fact, see this diagram, but it does not show the continuity of the circuit - ie, feed and onward supply.

The onward supply will be connected to the same terminals as the incoming supply, i.e. Live Loop, Neutral & Earth (as if it were one cable).

Also, I noted that it was dated 2002 - is this 17th Ed. compliant?

Yes, it's just a circuit.

 

[plugit]

EFLImpudence
Thank you again. I do understand sufficently to wire the correct connections for the continiuing circuit, but I thought each connection (ie ceiling rose in this case) should be part of the continuous circuit?

The diagram you supplied shows the second light as a spur (again, please forgive the vocab). In this event, the connection is not fully continuous and the small rose connectors become rather 'crowded' - this struck me as undesirable. I find them pretty fiddly with a single wire!

ban-all-sheds
You may be correct that I should take a break 'from fiddling', but would be pleased to receive your guidance on my original question for a specific diagram. I have IEE Electrician's Guide and can see no specific reference to what I have asked.

I had thougt the forum was intended to be helpful rather than patronising? But thank you for taking the trouble to respond.

I hope to be retiring shortly and thought about taking the 10 day training to be Part P qualified, would you recommend this?

 

[EFLImpudence]

EFLImpudence
Thank you again. I do understand sufficently to wire the correct connections for the continiuing circuit, but I thought each connection (ie ceiling rose in this case) should be part of the continuous circuit?

The diagram you supplied shows the second light as a spur (again, please forgive the vocab). In this event, the connection is not fully continuous

In that case you used the wrong term.

If you meant to which connections do the second light wires go then the answer is the same ones as the first light.

and the small rose connectors become rather 'crowded' - this struck me as undesirable.

More like that's life and unavoidable

I find them pretty fiddly with a single wire!

ban-all-sheds
You may be correct that I should take a break 'from fiddling', but would be pleased to receive your guidance on my original question for a specific diagram. I have IEE Electrician's Guide and can see no specific reference to what I have asked.

I had thougt the forum was intended to be helpful rather than patronising? But thank you for taking the trouble to respond.

I hope to be retiring shortly and thought about taking the 10 day training to be Part P qualified, would you recommend this?

Wait for it.

 

[plugit]

EFLImpudence, thank you again.

Is this what it should (could) look like?

View media item 38589
Regards

 

[bernardgreen]

EFLImpudence, thank you again.

Is this what it should (could) look like?

View media item 38589
Regards

It could look like that but use triple and earth to avoid using a single core between roses.

But you do NOT need to loop the live and neutral into the second rose unless you are planning to later have that on a separate switch.

Just take twin and earth from the outer two terminals of the "slave" rose ( the ones the lamp connects to ) to the matching terminals in the "master " rose. ( master being the one with the switch connected to it ).

 

[plugit]

bernardgreen
Thank you very much, this is exactly the information I need.

None of the literature I have read alludes to the acceptability of a master / slave arrangement (apart from a socket spur). I had thought all components had to be part of the continuous circuit. Your explanation clarifies the arrangement.

Kind regards

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Untitled

• PrenticeBoyofDerry
• 27 Sep 2011
• 3

Wire your circuit as normal.
If new core colours:
Red=Brown
Black=Blue
Green/Yellow=Same

Then at the ceiling rose of your first light fitting,
Run a T&E cable across the terminals in both the first and additional fittings as follows.
Neutral blue/black in left hand side terminal of diagram to same terminal at second light fitting/rose.
Switch Live brown/red in right hand terminal of diagram to same terminal in second light fitting/rose (the switch live, black core of diagram should be sleeved to indicate it is live).
earth/cpc across to earth/cpc.
no need to go in to live loop terminal.
The single switch will then operate both lights.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

ban-all-sheds
You may be correct that I should take a break 'from fiddling', but would be pleased to receive your guidance on my original question for a specific diagram. I have IEE Electrician's Guide and can see no specific reference to what I have asked.

You won't - the guide is a guide to the Wiring Regulations and/or Building Regulations (depending which one you mean) - not a design guide or a guide to domestic lighting circuit topologies.

I had thougt the forum was intended to be helpful rather than patronising?

I wasn't being patronising - I really do think you should do some learning. There's no shame in not knowing how circuits are or should be wired - everyone has to learn that.

But thank you for taking the trouble to respond.

No problem

I hope to be retiring shortly and thought about taking the 10 day training to be Part P qualified, would you recommend this?

Well - Part P is a part of the Building Regulations, not a qualification, but if you want to go on a course leading to the EAL Level 2 Certificate for Domestic Electrical Installers out of interest, then sure.

I stress "out of interest" because having that VRQ won't make any difference to your legal status regarding notifiable work. It might (possibly with C&G 2382-10 as well, which if you're truly ready to assert to them that you are competent you should be able to pass without needing a course) mean that your council accept your EICs, but you'll still need to notify in advance and pay the fee.

You'd need to be able to test, though, so if your funds don't stretch to the course and a set of test equipment then I'd say go for the latter and some DIY learning. You ought to be able to get decent s/h kit on eBay for £2-300 - depends how lucky you are and/or how long you want to wait for a bargain to turn up. And turn up they do - this recent one was particularly good, I thought: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/METREL-61557-MULTIFUNCTION-TESTER-LOOP-RCD-INS-CONT-/320764399772

Also, if you can get to a local education college to do the course one evening a week then you'll learn more, as you can use the intervening days to study on your own, and you'll pay less, than going to a commercial provider.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I had thought all components had to be part of the continuous circuit.

They are - lighting circuits are radials, and they typically branch off all over the place.

 

[plugit]

You won't - the guide is a guide to the Wiring Regulations and/or Building Regulations (depending which one you mean) - not a design guide or a guide to domestic lighting circuit topologies.

This is from the Electrician's Guide to the Building Regs - looks like a diagram to me, just not what I needed. But I take your point about it not being a design guide.

View media item 38618

I really do think you should do some learning

I have undertaken a significant amount of reading and asked questions and as a result identified a number of safety problems due to the age of the wiring in my house. In this case I was unsure how to proceed so asked a very specific question. Your links were unrelated to the point, and appeared patronising. However, thank you for clarifying your intent.

In respect of the Part P (semantics of qualifications aside) my understanding from training companies, eg. Builder Training Centre - it is possible to reach the level of being able to apply for self certification status - following as you say, the C&G parts - in all about 10 days. Presumably, this would require some pre-read and practice.

At a cost of about £1800, I reckon that is about one-third of the cost I would be quoted for a re-wire, so if I could self-certify I potentially save £3500 and gain a skill. I have made a guess as to a possible quote for a re-wire, so these figures may be wrong. Also, I want to re-wire my house, not go into business as an electrician.

What I would find helpful is an electrician who would visit, advise and subsequently inspect - at a cost that reflects the input. ie. a generous hourly / day rate that compensates for the lost opportunity (business) cost.

I guess like many on the forum, I do not want to pay someone else to knock holes out for boxes, chase walls or run the wires, but I would pay a good rate for advice on how to do it. And teach me how to wire two lights!!!

The law says I am allowed to do this, but I believe (perhaps incorrectly) that I would not persuade a qualified person to work with me in this way.

Of course, this could be applied to other roles, such as plumbing, etc. where mistakes might be less dangerous!

I apologise for the length of this response, but you have been kind enough to provide a comprehensive follow-up, thank you.

 

[yorkspark]

a rewire on a 2 up 2 down costs approx £2100 to £2600 depending where you live, a larger house will be a bit more obviously so lets work out your costings :-

a 10 day wonder course - £1800
registration with a self cert body - £500
bs7671 (regs) - £60
on site guide - £40
hire of testing equipment - £75 min or
electrician to test - £200 - £250
materials - £500 depending on make/ quantity

totals so far - £3100 approx

plus time at wonder course - 10 days
time to do rewire - 14 days

pay for electrician to inspect 1st fix- £100 ish
redo any cabling mistakes - 2 days ish

pay for electrician to inspect 2nd fix- £150

totals so far -£3300 approx


so thats approx £3300 and approx 26 days to do a rewire, assuming its all cabled correctly.

This is also assuming you can find a qualified electrician to agree to you doing the work and him/her inspecting - good luck with that one i know i would'nt do it

incidently have you ever wondered why apprentices don't decide to do these 10 day courses, ill tell you why, their rubbish and don't teach you anything- they only show you the basic way to wire and anything out of the ordinary and your on your own asking diy forums for help as already shown on here by not knowing how to connect basic lighting circuits up