smacking kids

[jbonding]

So, to recap, this thread started off about a six-year old that occasionaly gets a bit crazy, to which we had many useful suggestion to eliminate environmental factors and to which Joe's solution is 'Give them a smack' and its has somehow managed to get round to a 14-year old with a knife, to which Joe's solution is 'Give them a smack'. En route, we have been through discipline in the army, to which the implied solution has been 'Give them a smack' as well.

Whenever anyone has suggested that the solution to some of these problems comes from analysing the root cause, we have been derided for not stating a solution to the hypothetical 14-year old. Given that we know nothing about him apart from the fact he is 14, has a knife and a potty-mouth, and doesn't exist, it is impossible to give an answer. In the case of the real 6-year old, I think Toffee has been given some fair pointers.

Joe has repeatedly suggested that he has 'won'. In a debate, you 'win' when everyone else rubs thir chin and says 'You know, I think Old Joe is right after all'. I would suggest we haven't reached that point yet. It isn't even necessary to win, but normally a show of hands would decide it.

Joe, I would suggest that your recollection of growing up on an enormous council estate, a 1000-pupil school, and there not being one badly-behaved child either there or in the whole of the 1960's is rose-tinted at best.

I would also question how old you are. For some reason, the mental picture I have from things you have said in the past is that you are around 33 or 34. From that, I would also contend that you or anyone in your school were never given 'Six of the Best'

I would also suggest that the whole issue of yobbishness can be summed up as a lack of respect for others and their views. Do you consider that your heartily-smacked childhood has turned you into a respectful adult ? I imagine that more of the 'yobs' that we see on the streets today have been smacked and shouted at in their lives than haven't.

And finally, you need to answer my earlier question about what to do if your golden smack does not work. Could a policeman break a yob's arm to teach him some respect ? Would it be acceptable for a teacher to assault a teenage girl in order to break her spirit and make her behave, or would you be writing a stiff letter to the head if your daughter came home and told you that ?

As has been said, its a complex issue. Britain does seem to have an increasing yob-culture, but it can only be cured by getting at the cause, not through violence. If you can't understand that, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Very good

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And we await the sadly inevitable response from the person I'm not allowed to criticise...

 

[joe-90]

So, to recap, this thread started off about a six-year old that occasionaly gets a bit crazy, to which we had many useful suggestion to eliminate environmental factors and to which Joe's solution is 'Give them a smack' and its has somehow managed to get round to a 14-year old with a knife, to which Joe's solution is 'Give them a smack'. En route, we have been through discipline in the army, to which the implied solution has been 'Give them a smack' as well.

Whenever anyone has suggested that the solution to some of these problems comes from analysing the root cause, we have been derided for not stating a solution to the hypothetical 14-year old. Given that we know nothing about him apart from the fact he is 14, has a knife and a potty-mouth, and doesn't exist, it is impossible to give an answer. In the case of the real 6-year old, I think Toffee has been given some fair pointers.

Joe has repeatedly suggested that he has 'won'. In a debate, you 'win' when everyone else rubs thir chin and says 'You know, I think Old Joe is right after all'. I would suggest we haven't reached that point yet. It isn't even necessary to win, but normally a show of hands would decide it.

Joe, I would suggest that your recollection of growing up on an enormous council estate, a 1000-pupil school, and there not being one badly-behaved child either there or in the whole of the 1960's is rose-tinted at best.

I would also question how old you are. For some reason, the mental picture I have from things you have said in the past is that you are around 33 or 34. From that, I would also contend that you or anyone in your school were never given 'Six of the Best'

I would also suggest that the whole issue of yobbishness can be summed up as a lack of respect for others and their views. Do you consider that your heartily-smacked childhood has turned you into a respectful adult ? I imagine that more of the 'yobs' that we see on the streets today have been smacked and shouted at in their lives than haven't.

And finally, you need to answer my earlier question about what to do if your golden smack does not work. Could a policeman break a yob's arm to teach him some respect ? Would it be acceptable for a teacher to assault a teenage girl in order to break her spirit and make her behave, or would you be writing a stiff letter to the head if your daughter came home and told you that ?

As has been said, its a complex issue. Britain does seem to have an increasing yob-culture, but it can only be cured by getting at the cause, not through violence. If you can't understand that, you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

I was at school in the 60s.

We had NO yobs. Not one. Go toa school on any estate today and see if you can get that sort of answer.

We had respect for our teachers. We had respect for the Police and for our parents. Where is that respect today. You can deny it all you like but the rot set in in the early 70s when caning was removed from the schools.
If you give a kid a yard - he'll take his mile. That is what has happened. There is no 'line in the sand' that cannot be crossed without serious consequences - so the kid just keeps going and going and going until they are out of control. Happy slapping, knifing each other and getting drunk and high on drugs every night. Ask your Dad about when he was at school. Ask a few elderly relatives and see what they say. It's liberal luvvies like you that are the root cause of the problem - history has proven this so.
So what are you going to do about it? Nothing? Thought so.


joe

 

[markie]

Get one thing straight, it might illegal to smack kids, but what is the definition of a smack,

A = hitting so hard it leaves a mark, eg bruise, red mark etc..

B = smacking, say the bum cheeks soft enough not to leave a mark, which inturn dosen't hurt them, but they know the have done wrong.


I'm not going to say that i never smacked my kids, but when i have, it's allways been B, a light smack on their bums does them no harm, and they know that they have done wrong.

To say smacking is like abusing a kid is way over the top.
Abusing kids IMHO is leaving bruise's, fiddling ( sexually ), neglecting, etc..

 

[johnny_t]

Not one badly behaved child, but still some were given the cane. Seems frightfully unfair to me......

 

[joe-90]

Not one badly behaved child, but still some were given the cane. Seems frightfully unfair to me......

We all had the cane from time to time -so what? That was part of school in my day. But we were all basically good kids, not a bunch of yobs that threaten their teachers and carry knives. Tell me Johnny-boy - just what are you going to do with the monsters that you've created?


joe

 

[johnny_t]

So you were all good kids, but the teachers handed out random beatings ?

Anyway, where and when was this school - I guess I can then look it up on the internet as it must be in all the textbooks on how to get it right....

 

[jbonding]

joe i cant believe for one minute there wasnt any head cases in your school. was there a cock of the school? how did everyone know who the cock was? no one smashed a window? wagged it? went apple scrumping ,stole a bike? got pregnant? we had the strap in school and believe me there were kids who buzzed of it. I got the slipper off my mum when i was a kid and beleive me you were happy she had her slippers on and not her roller skates Kids who get a crack get used to it and when that happens what punishment is left. I remember being grounded more than the slipper, and you would guarantee the sun would shine and everyone would be out

 

[joe-90]

So you were all good kids, but the teachers handed out random beatings ?

Anyway, where and when was this school - I guess I can then look it up on the internet as it must be in all the textbooks on how to get it right....

We pushed our luck. We went where we didn't ought to go (behind the bikesheds etc). You took your chance and if you were caught you got a whack. So what? At least we didn't tote knives and go 'Happy Slapping'.

So what are you going to do with the monsters that you've created? (Or will you continue to make trite remarks to mask your inability to answer?)


joe

 

[jbonding]

So you were all good kids, but the teachers handed out random beatings ?

Anyway, where and when was this school - I guess I can then look it up on the internet as it must be in all the textbooks on how to get it right....

We pushed our luck. We went where we didn't ought to go (behind the bikesheds etc). You took your chance and if you were caught you got a whack. So what? At least we didn't tote knives and go 'Happy Slapping'.

So what are you going to do with the monsters that you've created? (Or will you continue to make trite remarks to mask your inability to answer?)


joe

thats because you didnt get £60 a week spends and had a mobile phone with a camera on it
you never know how you might have turned out with these things.

 

[joe-90]

joe i cant believe for one minute there wasnt any head cases in your school. was there a cock of the school? how did everyone know who the cock was? no one smashed a window? wagged it? went apple scrumping ,stole a bike? got pregnant? we had the strap in school and believe me there were kids who buzzed of it. I got the slipper off my mum when i was a kid and beleive me you were happy she had her slippers on and not her roller skates Kids who get a crack get used to it and when that happens what punishment is left. I remember being grounded more than the slipper, and you would guarantee the sun would shine and everyone would be out

We did all the stuff like scrumping and fighting and all that stuff - but that's as far as it went. There was no malice behind society as there is today. We were basically good kids. I've never been in trouble with the police to this day.

Oh and it was an all boys school so pregnancy wasn't a problem.


joe

 

[markie]

At my school we got the ruler on our finger tips, or a leather strap on the back of your legs, both hurt like hell.
Only had one of each once, you learn not to get caught after that,

 

[johnny_t]

Well you haven't answered my questions, so I thought I'd repay the compliment.

And, as I've said before, I can't answer without the facts, as a one-size-fits-all solution does not work. If you wanted an off-the-cuff response, I have done bit in raising my own children, but if a CHILD needs punishment, it needs to be something that they are going to perceive as a punishment and want to avoid a repetition of, not a clip round the ear from a policeman. Curfew orders are an idea - ASBOs are a step in the right direction.

 

[joe-90]

Well you haven't answered my questions, so I thought I'd repay the compliment.

And, as I've said before, I can't answer without the facts, as a one-size-fits-all solution does not work. If you wanted an off-the-cuff response, I have done bit in raising my own children, but if a CHILD needs punishment, it needs to be something that they are going to perceive as a punishment and want to avoid a repetition of, not a clip round the ear from a policeman. Curfew orders are an idea - ASBOs are a step in the right direction.

And when the yob ignores them - then what?


joe

 

[johnny_t]

Same with your smacking.

And I asked first.