unable to buy parts without a corgi ticket horaaayyyyyy

[JLP]

I think the law at the moment states "the person installing C/H and servicing gas appliances should be a competent person" not corgi registered.

Corgi registered is a license to charge the public exorbitant prices as we have seen on TV, plumbers from hell.

 

[sanj.varah]

I don't think this is a government regulation. its only being rolled out across plumb center.

However my local branch was quite willing to sell me (not corgi registered) a brand new boiler - only question they asked was account or cash.

I think CORGI (and its members) has done its bit to market themselves to a position where the general public believe that everything must be installed by a CORGI registered operative - this is true if its part of a business but if your doing it in your own house you just have to be "competent".

The fact that someone is CORGI registered doesn't mean they'll do a good job and for that reason I don't think you are going to stop cowboys.

sanj

 

[BoxBasher]

I guess you will have to be a mechanic in future to buy a set of brake pads the way our nanny society is going.
Pete

Actually, you didn't used to be able to buy brake parts (in particular brake pipe) about 20 yrs ago. My dad went to buy some bits for his moggy minor (back when they were common) and the parts shop wouldn't sell him any unless he could prove he knew what he was doing.

He went out to his van and fetched his pipe flaring kit and showed the guy what a five year apprenticeship as Girling (brakes) will get you...

 

[gas4you]

I think the law at the moment states "the person installing C/H and servicing gas appliances should be a competent person" not corgi registered.

Corgi registered is a license to charge the public exorbitant prices as we have seen on TV, plumbers from hell.

Not by the majority of good ones who have to pay exhorbitant fees to corgi and retrain every 5 years at great cost

 

[c128]

Assuming that these regulations (voluntary by a single company or otherwise) are being introduced in order to stem accidents as a result of faulty gas repairs/installations, are there any statistics about such accidents?

I guess I'd be interested to see what the break-down was between accidents caused by CORGI registered fitters and those caused by unregistered fitters, in terms of both percentage and numbers, or maybe that's not so easily quantifiable?

 

[Timmo]

using legislation in this manner rarely works, but is consistent with the nanny state we live in.

There is one huge assumption here in that CORGI installers are competent and non CORGI installers are not. A reasonable assumption you would think, but the reality is that in the time CORGI have been in existence to improve gas safety we still compare poorly against other UK countries, including those that do not have a CORGI.

Secondly 80% (anecdotal) of boiler sales in UK are made to non registered installers. manufactures will not vote to cut sales by 80% and neither will gov support this. But fair play to Wolsey for making a stand.

If the ACS system stopped legislating and started assisting the industry and protecting consumers then this debate would become irrelevant.

there are many competent gas engineers out there who have chosen not to register. I would argue that a better option would be to allow those who are truly competent to continue to trade without the extortionate costs, time off and trauma of the ACS. and for the HSE to identify those who are not competant and do something positive and meaningful. This would make a nice deterrent for those who are stupid enough to break into a gas system without knowing what it does and how it works.

 

[mgheating]

I presume that you meant EU rather than UK. Care to share the source of these figures.

Whilst I find this unlikely, do you not think there might be a correlation between the number of boilers bought by non-corgi gas installers and the number of accidents.

Like it or not, gas is a dangerous substance when not properly controlled. If we let every punter on the street 'have a go' at installing his boiler then there would be far more accidents.

I'm not quite sure how you intend to allow non registered gas installers to work whilst weeding out the ones who don't do a good job. At least if a corgi does a bad job there is redress through the governing body.

As regards gas parts only being sold to RGIs, I'm all in favour of it. It takes a lot of hard work and money to get your corgi ticket. Why should that money go to people who aren't as willing to invest their time and money?

 

[DP]

Sorry JLP, the regulation states you will not carry out gas work for gain unless you belong to CORGI. That means, if you want to tinker with your own gas appliances, you can do so and blow yourself sky high. No one can stop you. But your insurance will not be happy. In the process, injure your neighbour by your actions, then watch out as Health and Safety will be on your a**. They will prosecute.

When you go to a shop to purchase something, the shop does not have to sell you if they do not want to. I fail to see how the law can step in and make the shop sell you what you aim to purchase.

"Corgi registered is a license to charge the public exorbitant prices as we have seen on TV, plumbers from hell." Utter rubbish. What you see is TV jornalism. Who would want to see a proffesional instead of a rogue on TV carrying out honest work. Not many I am sure

 

[greengrass]

I totaly agree with legislations that stop cowboys but have you lot not watched 'Builders etc from hell' on TV featuring all types of tradesmen.

Plumbers and C/heating engineers replacing parts unnecessarily, one even claimed to have replaced the fan motor on old dears boiler [She was a set up by TV company to expose rogue traders].

Then there's the locksmiths who drilled out locks replaced them with a £15 lock from a DIY store and showed the woman [TV set up again] a well known high priced lock box claiming that's what he fitted charged £75 for the lock plus call out. And it wasn't the first time that company was exposed but the second time video evidence was at hand so the police took over.


There's the builder/roofers who painted neat cement on ridge tile joints and gable end kerbs making out they had pulled off the tiles and re-bedded them. Then there's the 'cheapie' builder who comes in at a low price only to bump it up to 3-4 times the original estimate with excuses and if you don't pay threaten you with violence. The electrician seems to be an honest trade or I missed it.
What's in force to protect us the customer [too old to do my own now.]
I know there are customers who are 'knockers' [don't pay out when job done] out there I've had a few not paid me for roof work.
I used to see a couple of them waiting at a bus stop, I wondered why the weren't using their cars. I know what your thinking but no I never damaged their cars.

 

[Softus]

An elderly lady of my acquaintance smelt gas around a recently installed gas hob, so she called the Corgi registered technician who had installed it. He fixed it. He charged her £50. WTF?

I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

[corgiman]

depends of if it was his work that was leaking

 

[Softus]

duplicate removed

 

[Softus]

i have heard from jan 1st 2008 all companies will have to comply by law

What is this law called, and when was it passed?

was wondering what you guys thought about this

I think you have a chip on your shoulder.

Your opinion seems to be as reasonable, and your information as accurate, as the following statement:

Unlike almost all other heating installers (including British Gas) A.C.Wilgar employ all our own staff...

Almost all others? Really? Do you realise what forum you're posting on?

What is so wrong with people 'doing it themselves'. We have been doing it since time began. The fact we are trying to do it in the first place is probably because we enjoy doing so and get a small amount of satisfaction and sense of achievement, let alone save ourselves quite a lot of money. Most will I feel, have researched it, thought about it and be quite capable of carrying it out.

The quality of most DIY work that I see is rather poor. Some is excellent, but I've walked out of houses where the wiring has been so appalling that for me to work on the plumbing would have been too risky for me. And these are the people who are willing to let someone in their house - I don't expect to ever get to see the real shockers!

No amount of legislation will stop the complete idiot from blowing himself up, for whom these rules are supposed to target.

The evidence is to the contrary - most laws are effective deterrents to most people.

Yes, gas is dangerous, so is electricity, so is walking down the high street or crossing the road. Thankfully, DIY it is not a major threat to are health and until it starts becoming so, then we can legislate, in the mean time, let's worry about things that are.

How many people are killed annually by gas and electricity related accidents? How many does it have to be before you would regard them as major threats?

This nanny state is really starting to grate with me.

Have you written to your MP about this?

Without legal precedant there is absolutely no difference between this and them saying that they are only going to sell parts to white people.

I think that's rather different. There are plenty of companies who choose not to sell to the public, and there are products that are sold only to suitable licensed people. For example, do you think anyone would sell you a full set of police uniform, radio, armoury, anti-riot gear, car, blue light, siren, and warrant badge? Or do you think that the police manufacture everything they use?

I think the law at the moment states "the person installing C/H and servicing gas appliances should be a competent person" not corgi registered.

You think wrongly - the law states no such thing.

...in the time CORGI have been in existence to improve gas safety we still compare poorly against other UK countries, including those that do not have a CORGI.

Do you have any figures to support this?

Secondly 80% (anecdotal) of boiler sales in UK are made to non registered installers. manufactures will not vote to cut sales by 80% and neither will gov support this. But fair play to Wolsey for making a stand.

If you're correct, then Wolseley have simply given away 80% of their boiler sales to their less idealistic competitors.

If the ACS system stopped legislating and started assisting the industry and protecting consumers then this debate would become irrelevant.

It already is.

If we let every punter on the street 'have a go' at installing his boiler then there would be far more accidents.

We already let every punter have a go.

"Corgi registered is a license to charge the public exorbitant prices as we have seen on TV, plumbers from hell." Utter rubbish. What you see is TV jornalism. Who would want to see a proffesional instead of a rogue on TV carrying out honest work. Not many I am sure

An oasis of sanity in a desert of nonsense (apart from ChrisR and BoxBasher).

 

[Timmo]

OK, I cannot answer some of your questions so your challenge for the time being will have to stand. But, your stalwart defense of CORGI and the ACS system is equally uncorroborated.

ACS and with it the CORGi brand is confusing to customers who believe they receive protection from those who are able to display the badge. On earlier threads there are those who find a quick way way on to the register and therefore are perceived as being competent. We all know this is wrong except for the poor customer. Of course there should be an assessment of competence but one that improves the knowledge and ability of individuals and or recognises their current capability and knowledge. When a kitchen fitter (who rarely undertakes gas work for example) undertakes the same test as a bono fide gas engineer, this over kill. And therefore CORGI are open to suggestions that this is a money making opportunistic play rather than a protection for consumers.

When the same expense and time to re-assess individuals is invested to reach the same standard as 5 years previous then this expense is a not used effectively. When the customer believes that the guy repairing a broken down combi is competent because they hold a CORGI registration this is dishonest. When the assessment is much more onerous than other high risk industries like aerospace and medicine I will subscribe to original point on this thread. Until them, whos fooling who

back to the point, I applaud anyone who takes gas safety seriously but lets not kid ourselves that this is brain surgery people can and should be able to learn and gain experience without the hoops that are currently in train. Again refer to threads from frustrated people who cant get onto the register ( many< would say shouldn't) but there are those who should and are clearly able.

 

[Softus]

OK, I cannot answer some of your questions so your challenge for the time being will have to stand.

If you see a request for more information to be a challenge, then your views must be on quite shaky ground.

But, your stalwart defense of CORGI and the ACS system is equally uncorroborated.

My "defense" is also non-existent. Please show me where I've defended anything to do with CORGI and/or ACS.

ACS and with it the CORGi brand is confusing to customers who believe they receive protection from those who are able to display the badge.

I happen to agree. I openly decry the abuse of the CORGI brand that is occurring that the new company "CORGI Services Ltd" is perpetrating.

On earlier threads there are those who find a quick way way on to the register and therefore are perceived as being competent. We all know this is wrong except for the poor customer. Of course there should be an assessment of competence but one that improves the knowledge and ability of individuals and or recognises their current capability and knowledge.

I couldn't agree more.

When a kitchen fitter (who rarely undertakes gas work for example) undertakes the same test as a bono fide gas engineer, this over kill.

I couldn't agree less.

And therefore CORGI are open to suggestions that this is a money making opportunistic play rather than a protection for consumers.

Debatable. It isn't CORGI who made the law that requires registration.

When the same expense and time to re-assess individuals is invested to reach the same standard as 5 years previous then this expense is a not used effectively. When the customer believes that the guy repairing a broken down combi is competent because they hold a CORGI registration this is dishonest.

Again, this is debatable. Some consumers deserve protection, particularly the old and infirm, but the consumer's worst enemy is his/her own greed and meanness.

When the assessment is much more onerous than other high risk industries like aerospace and medicine I will subscribe to original point on this thread. Until them, whos fooling who

I don't know how much deliberate fooling is going on; I suspect less of it than you do. But I struggle to believe that the aerospace and medical industries place less onerous requirements on their operatives, especially since I've worked within one of those.

back to the point, I applaud anyone who takes gas safety seriously but lets not kid ourselves that this is brain surgery people can and should be able to learn and gain experience without the hoops that are currently in train.

I agree that the main RGI hoop is very high and very small, but it should be difficult. Despite having a personal interest in there being a lower and larger hoop, I don't know what the right answer is, but I do know that being indiscriminately critical of CORGI and RGIs is both an easy target and self-defeating - the latter because it removes credibility from the person issuing the jibes.