Table saw - I know, discussed plenty of times

I don't think a cross cut saw is faster and safer. I'd say it was slower, less accurate and no safer.
Have a look at this guy ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1QcufaXHmM

Then again it probably depends on the job in hand.

Norcon said:

I don't think a cross cut saw is faster and safer. I'd say it was slower, less accurate and no safer.
Have a look at this guy ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1QcufaXHmM

Then again it probably depends on the job in hand.

Click to expand...

I don't like the way he's using machines with exposed cutters and blades, or how his hand in on the workpiece over the cutters. He should at least be using push blocks.
I used to go into a workshop where they were a bit careless about the spindle. Guy was rebating the edge of boards, much as that bloke was doing. No guards, and using hands direct on work. He lost a couple of fingers to that later.

Also having no top guard on a saw blade as with those sleds discussed earlier. OK til you stumble on an offcut or something and put your hand out to save yourself. And yes I do keep the area around the saw clear, but when you're busy sometimes. . .

He has upgraded his machines since for more european style machines. Slider panel saws, spindle moulders etc.

Don't think he 's the type who will start using push sticks now.
There's an earlier one where his fingers just slip past the blade up close.

Problem is he's there showing people "how it's done" and they might think it's the safest way of doing it.
You get away with these things hundreds of times, and then one job will have you. The biggest danger really is machining pieces that are too small to be properly held. I remember seeing some old film of shipbuilding, 1930s or earlier. Guy was doing some sort of shaped work on a small work piece with one of those bloody great big square cutter blocks. No guards or work holding jigs anywhere! No wonder they all used to lose chunks of their hands.

Norcon said:

I don't think a cross cut saw is faster and safer. I'd say it was slower, less accurate and no safer.
Have a look at this guy

Click to expand...

The safety is really an issue of guarding - much easier to guard a crosscut with a trenching head than a table saw for middle of panel cuts and bear in mind that cross cut saws are required (in a trade shop) to have an automatic/spring return to a home position which must also be guarded (good idea in any case because it then forms a dust collector). Nothing new to me - I worked in a place where we had that sort of set-up in the 1970s. Accuracy is down to how good the machine operator is at jigging it out although measuring devices such as the Datum Flipstop will give you the same accuracy on a crosscut as you'll get on a table saw off the shelf (but there's no reason why you can't build your own). I honestly don't think that trying to cut 8 or more trenches across a 6ft long end panel for a tall book case is anywhere near as safe on a table saw unless you have something the size of an 8ft slider - even then you're still moving a lot of timber back and forth which isn't that clever in a small shop. Please bear in mind that I'm used to proper trade type crosscuts which unlike deWalt hobby radial arm saws are solid, accurate and retain their settings - with a DW 10in or 12in RAS you have to go in for a bit of strengthening and modification to make them repeatably accurate - something few people do. Chalk and cheese

As a "tradie" I', with Dave. You can hardly expect me to promote or condone the use of relatively dangerous machines such as saws without tooling, can you? I was taught spindle moulding on machines without power feeders, but with square blocks and slotted collars (both of which could and did shed cutters from time to time - I've been in a shop when that happened and the term "involuntary evacuation" springs to mind) as well as my own personal favourite, the French head, which was well known for its tendency to remove finger tips (you couldn't see the cutter). I've been asked a number of times to teach people how to make-up and use French cutter and I've refused each time because they were banned because they were dangerous and I just can't teach "feel" and "sound" (when they're cutting right, and are sharp enough) over the Internet, or even in a shop in 10 minutes. By the time I started trenching had already been moved from the table saw onto a crosscut following an accident in which a machinist had lost two fingers. They taught me how to use the saw, but it was only as a backup. In my early years at work wood machinists and sawyers always seemed to be missing a finger, or two, or more, so whilst things may be a bit more restrictive these days, you rarely meet the old guys with bits missing any longer which sort of says it all to my mind

Having watched your video I'd say that none of the techniques shown in that video need to be done that way, all of them can be done three or four other ways, in greater safety IMHO. It all depends on training and attitude, I'd say

Remember using a circular saw in school with no top guard and the timber rode the blade.
It took off like a javelin, hit my cheekbone deflecting onwards making a large dent in a door.

Also larking about I threw sawdust on a mates back and the woodwork teacher belted me so hard I was partially knocked out and just remember trying to get off the floor.
That was more embarrassing then the javelin I must admit.
That taught me.

Norcon said:

Remember using a circular saw in school with no top guard and the timber rode the blade. It took off like a javelin, hit my cheekbone deflecting onwards making a large dent in a door.

Click to expand...

Classic kickback. I've seen a 10 ft long 12 x 3in American black walnut baulk thrown 15 or so feet out of a rip saw - scared the bejaysus out of the guy sawing it - he was an agency guy, not the regular saw man and he couldn't get the hang of the power feeder so he was hand feeding, After that he asked! Somewhere on the net there's a report from the Canadian safety authorities which is an accident report made after the fact by a team investigating the death of a wood machinist who was killed when an uncontrolled kickback occurred and he was standing in the wrong place and got speared. Loads of references to people scewering hands, fingers, etc, especially in the USA. The point is that it's so easy to do things right and it takes little, if any, extra effort.

Wood machining is no more dangerous than driving a car and at least you are the only idiot whose responsible for your accidents

No doubt about it, power feeds are the answer wherever their use is possible. If I was still doing any quantity of work I'd consider getting them for my machines. Much safer than hand feeding.

Funny that talk about black walnut being cut, I'd swear (really!) that I caught a whiff of the smell of it being cut!

He working like someone who will only learn when he loses a finger or two.

"all of them can be done three or four other ways, in greater safety IMHO"

Was musing over that and come up with......

1 - Crosscut saw. (as you mentioned)
2 - Router (slow)
3 - Hand held circular saw with grooving cutter fitted. (Fast)

Norcon said:

"all of them can be done three or four other ways, in greater safety IMHO"
Was musing over that and come up with......
1 - Crosscut saw. (as you mentioned)
2 - Router (slow)
3 - Hand held circular saw with grooving cutter fitted. (Fast)

Click to expand...

How about:
4 - hand saw for two cuts then chisel and mallet? (slow, but low tech and cheap)
5 - spindle moulder and grooving cutter?

Surely that's one good thing about woodworking - there's generally more than one way to undertake almost any task