explaining the purpose of neutral wire?

[Goldberg]

i'm still waiting for your explanation

What on earth are you talking about?

to explain how there is 0v on the neutral?
(without mentioning earth which has, according to you nothing whatsoever to do with it)

I've never undertaken to give you such an explanation, so you're going to have a long wait.

Earth has nothing to do with the purpose of neutral. You might argue that the name "neutral" implies some association, but the OP's question wasn't an etymological one, so any such association is irrelevant. Call it what you like - blue, black, neutral, or Little Johnny - it still has the same function and purpose, which is no more to do with earth than with Eartha Kitt.

 

[ericmark]

i'm still waiting for your explanation

What on earth are you talking about?

to explain how there is 0v on the neutral?
(without mentioning earth which has, according to you nothing whatsoever to do with it)

I've never undertaken to give you such an explanation, so you're going to have a long wait.

Earth has nothing to do with the purpose of neutral. You might argue that the name "neutral" implies some association, but the OP's question wasn't an etymological one, so any such association is irrelevant. Call it what you like - blue, black, neutral, or Little Johnny - it still has the same function and purpose, which is no more to do with earth than with Eartha Kitt.

Sorry I can't agree. A centre point does not have to be neutral and neither do any of the live wires. For example there is no neutral on a shaver socket. To have the name neutral it must at some point be bonded to earth.

Hence why all the answers seem to talk about the earth system. Normally the neutral is a centre tap with either 400 volt between phases or 460 volt between phases depending if three phase or split phase.

But in some countries you can get 110 volt to two phases and 190 volt to third where the secondary of transformer is delta wound and one winding is centre tapped to earth/neutral.

 

[ColJack]

without a reference to earth, then a neutral is not a neutral, it's just another conductor..

in the case of a portable generator, either wire can be considered as the live.... but it's only live with respect to the other wire.. if you grabbed only one wire you wouldn't get a shock..

even tt systems have the neutral tied to earth at the transformer..

 

[matt1e]

i'm still waiting for your explanation

What on earth are you talking about?

to explain how there is 0v on the neutral?
(without mentioning earth which has, according to you nothing whatsoever to do with it)

I've never undertaken to give you such an explanation, so you're going to have a long wait.

didn't expect one

Earth has nothing to do with the purpose of neutral.

never said it did- quote me

You might argue that the name "neutral" implies some association,

the naming of the neutral is more to do with the common connection on the star point then the connection with earth

but the OP's question wasn't an etymological one, so any such association is irrelevant.

you're starting to sound like a borg

Call it what you like - blue, black, neutral, or Little Johnny - it still has the same function and purpose, which is no more to do with earth than with Eartha Kitt.

again,who said it did - quote me

right from to ops original post

question being.....can someone explain the purpose (if thats the right word??) of the neutral wire in a circuit,why does it have 0 volts?

my first post

hi hellmouth
neutral can be termed 0v or 230v depending on what you are referencing it to
it is at 0v (more or less)in respect to earth because they are connected together upstream so at the same potential
it is also at 230 in respect to line etc etc

my second post straight after

sorry havn't answered the full question above regarding the purpose of the neutral but adam and spark123 etc have already answered it pretty well just to try and help you a bit further
taking taylortwocity's analogy with the battery a bit further: etc etc

so I along with others answered the two questions asked

goldberks first post

just a general question here,i am an adult trainee in my 2nd year and after asking a few trademen in my workplace this question i couldn't get an answer i understood

The fact that your more experienced colleagues can't help you understand probably explains why you think this:

i do understand how a circuit works,but this doesn't explain what i was meaning,my main query is how neutral can be termed 0v but still has say 230v running through it?

A voltage does not flow through the circuit. Current flows, not voltage.


If it helps, compare electricity in a circuit to water in a hosepipe.

Think of voltage as the pressure, and current as the flow.

Extending the analogy, resistance is conceptually the same - a thin wire/hose is more resistant to current/water flow than a wide one.

what a polite man, and the last four lines are about the only thing you got right this entire post
goldberks second

I'm open-mouthed to see the sheer number of words that people are writing about something so simple.

If you connect two points that have a potential difference, then current will flow. Nominally it will flow 'from' the point that has the positive potential (although in terms of electron flow the situation is different).

not simple for you because you're wrong

If you don't connect the two points, then no current will flow.

And why all this talk of the relationship between neutral and earth? It's a meaningless distraction.

If anyone thinks that discussion of the earth is relevant or essential, then please explain the function of the neutral path in the output from a generator.

as explained it was to do with the 0v of the question

And why all this talk of the relationship between neutral and earth? It's a meaningless distraction.

because the op asked

why does it have 0 volts?

Indeed he did, but the answer has nothing to do with earthing. Or an earth. Or the Earth.

still waiting for your explanation but as you said you're going to give one I take it its finally got through to your arrogant skull that you were wrong again it has every thing to do with it
later on

The neutral in a generator supply isn't at 240V wrt the live. If anything it's at -240V.

another wrong statement!!! your good at this mate

an earlier statement from mr helpful and friendly which i have added some comments to

The problem is, goldberg, the original poster doesn't think it's simple.

Quite so, but he's wrong......................pot kettle

Most, if not all, the other posters on this thread 'get it', the original poster doesn't.

I really think that a lot of them don't..................I agree here lol

A bit like when we first got in a car to drive, bloody hell, what a nightmare, now we do it in our sleep, sometimes literally!

Really? I find that I drive best when fully concentrating on it, and I repeatedly revisit the first principles of driving in an effort to avoid developing bad habits..................well agree here too but without any sarcasm you have went up in my book a tadge goldberg

Some, if not most, of the answers have failed abysmally to satisfy 1,2,3 (or even one of them).

Yes. Those people should stop adding confusion and just butt out.............lol this was before he started banging on about rms values etc

Some people are good electricians but s***te teachers, some are bad at both, we are looking for the ones who are good at both!

Seeking understanding on a forum like this is like expecting one lone student to flourish in a classroom full of teachers.

And if someone in their second year of studying hasn't already "got" what the neutral is, they should be barred from the building until they do, because it's completely impossible for them to be safe without that understanding.

get barred from many buildings goldburg???
pop over to the gardening forum ffs and see if you can borrow a spade

 

[Goldberg]

you're starting to sound like a borg

Goldborg?

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[matt1e]

you're starting to sound like a borg

Goldborg?

gotta admit wish I thought of that you have brought a smile to my face

matt1e, are you challenging BAS's position as the king of copy and paste.

never! well not as long as my right click button is still playing up

 

[Spark123]

If The RMS voltage is 240v, the peak voltage is about +340v and -340v giving a peak to peak voltage of about 680v.

The peak voltage between which two conductors, or which two points on a circuit?

The peak voltage between 0v (Neutral) and the top of the sine wave will be +340v, the peak voltage between the 0v and the bottom of the sine wave will be -340v. The difference between the top of the sine wave of the phase conductor and the bottom of the sine wave (non-instantaneous) is 680v.

 

[matt1e]

The peak voltage between 0v (Neutral) and the top of the sine wave will be +340v,

would 0v not be mid point between line and (tagged)neutral ?

matt

 

[Goldberg]

If The RMS voltage is 240v, the peak voltage is about +340v and -340v giving a peak to peak voltage of about 680v.

The peak voltage between which two conductors, or which two points on a circuit?

Not between any two points or conductors - I was referring to the values on the waveform.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If The RMS voltage is 240v, the peak voltage is about +340v and -340v giving a peak to peak voltage of about 680v.

The peak voltage between which two conductors, or which two points on a circuit?

Not between any two points or conductors - I was referring to the values on the waveform.

You were?

If The RMS voltage is 240v, the peak voltage is about +340v and -340v giving a peak to peak voltage of about 680v.

 

[Goldberg]

Not between any two points or conductors - I was referring to the values on the waveform.

You were?

Fair point, well made; I appear to have lost my marbles.

My only excuse is that I've had a stabbing pain in my shoulder blade for, quite literally, 24x7 hours, and it seems to have affected my ability to think straight.

Luckily, my hovercraft is stuffed full of eels.

 

[ColJack]

left shoulderblade? off center a bit?
any tingling sensation in your left arm?
that's a heart attack that is.. go to the ER and get it checked..

 

[hellmooth]

another simple question?

here goes.....say if i touched a phase with a screwdriver its going to blow right even tho the driver is insulated,isn't it in theory just like adding more cable to the circuit?well at least if it was a copper driver

sorry if this seems stupid again but been thinking about it all day lol,what causes the surge of current,is it because the resistance is higher in the driver?

 

[Spark123]

If you are using an electricians screwdriver then touching a live terminal with it isn't a problem, however live working should always be discouraged.
Touching two terminals of different potentials simultaneously with it will cause a big bang tho.