recommendation for a Negative Head Shower pump?

[Halo]

Hello!

I have been told that I need to install a NH shower pump - I've got no clue where to start looking or which brands are any good etc.

Can anyone recommend one? I'd like one that provides reasonable power but not enough to knock a small child over.

Thanks in advance!

Halo x

 

[Richard C]

http://www.salamanderpumps.co.uk/Products/ESP_Pumps.htm

http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/products/monsoon

The ST pumps are more expensive but quieter in operation & of robust design.

 

[Mark Br]

I prefer the Monsoon. But if your budget doesn't stretch to it it's also worth looking at the Grundfos Watermill. (screwfix for around £120.00)

 

[Halo]

Thanks for the tips - which one of the Stuart Turner ones would I need to get if I wanted to run just a gravity fed shower from it?

You've all been such a help! Cheers!

 

[Richard C]

which one of the Stuart Turner ones would I need to get if I wanted to run just a gravity fed shower from it?

Erm not really sure I understand what you mean, if you pump the circuit, the shower won’t be gravity fed

If you mean just one basic shower then the 1.5 bar will probably be enough;
http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/products/monsoon/u15-bar-twin

but if you have a large drencher head or long pipe runs then the 2 bar would be better;
http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/products/monsoon/u20-bar-twin
Personally, I would not fit less than a 2 bar.

Also remember that the size of the storage tanks, location of the pump & design of the piped circuits is just as important as the size of the pump; even a large, high quality pump will give poor & unreliable performance on a badly designed system.

 

[Halo]

which one of the Stuart Turner ones would I need to get if I wanted to run just a gravity fed shower from it?

Erm not really sure I understand what you mean, if you pump the circuit, the shower won’t be gravity fed

If you mean just one basic shower then the 1.5 bar will probably be enough;
http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/products/monsoon/u15-bar-twin

but if you have a large drencher head or long pipe runs then the 2 bar would be better;
http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/products/monsoon/u20-bar-twin
Personally, I would not fit less than a 2 bar.

Also remember that the size of the storage tanks, location of the pump & design of the piped circuits is just as important as the size of the pump; even a large, high quality pump will give poor & unreliable performance on a badly designed system.

Gosh, I sound like a right dunce.

We're installing this shower: http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.j...refview=search&ts=1263058102006&isSearch=true

We have been told by a plumber that we will need a NH pump due to the position of our tank etc.

Which of the pumps should I get - 2 bar is fine, do I need a twin pump? Or a single? I've really got no idea!

Thanks so much for the info

 

[Richard C]

We have been told by a plumber that we will need a NH pump due to the position of our tank etc.

I’m a little surprised your “plumber” isn’t advising exactly which pump you need to buy or even supplying it on your behalf! I would need to know a lot more about your tank positions & system layout to give advice; as I said previously, a correctly designed & installed system is essential for the shower to work properly. Surprisingly, there are many “plumbers” who don’t seem to have a clue when it comes to pumped shower design & get it completely wrong. This leads to disappointment, poor performance &, in some cases, early destruction of the pump itself.

Which of the pumps should I get

That’s a pretty basic mixer & shower head which won’t have a high demand. A 1.5 bar would be more than adequate but a 2 bar will give plenty of spare capacity should the shower fitting ever be upgraded; ultimately it depends on what you want from your shower both now or in the future. The ST Monsoon is a high quality pump & comes at a price; it may be worth considering a cheaper unit but you need to ensure it’s suitable for negative head if that’s what you plumber has asked for, the Grundfoss Watermill suggested by Mark BR isn’t. You can get negative head kits but these will probably work out more expensive than buying a NH pump in the first place.

do I need a twin pump? Or a single? I've really got no idea!

I linked the twin pump; http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/products/monsoon/u15-bar-twin
Independent, gravity fed hot & cold water supplies are best for pumped showers in which case a twin pump is required.

Some installations run on mains cold water pressure so only the hot water is pressure boosted using a single impeller pump. These are not good IMO as there is inevitably a pressure differential between the hot & cold supplies giving problems with balancing & reliable operation of the thermostatic mixer valve.

 

[Mark Br]

Sorry Halo - I was relying on memory for the price, which isn't always reliable.

The pump is actually nearer £200 (ANHBP|65D) However, although it appears in my Plumbfix catalogue (same company as Screwfix) I can't find it on the Screwfix site.

Edit - Looks as though the pump has been replaced with a new model Amazon STN-2.0B which is nearer £400.

 

[Halo]

Thanks for the info again

B&Q are installing everything, but they do not sell NH pumps, so have told us to buy ourselves a NH pump which they will then install.

Our heating system is ancient (we've moved into a fixer-upper of a house, oh yes, this will not be the last subject I pick this forum's brains on!). It's a condensing boiler with a cold header tank in the loft, and a hot water cylinder at floor level on the first floor. The shower will be positioned higher than the hot water tank. Due to the size, shape and layout of the bathroom, the pump will need to be mounted in the loft space. Hence the need for a NH pump. The water pressure isn't great at the moment - for a tap it's fine, but the shower feels like it doesn't get you properly wet!

I am now going to set about finding the best price for the Monsoon Universal 2.0 bar Twin pump. Any tips on where I should be looking?

Thanks for helping me - I was completely clueless! Still am on everything else

 

[Richard C]

B&Q are installing everything, but they do not sell NH pumps, so have told us to buy ourselves a NH pump which they will then install.

B&Q don’t employ plumbers as such; they just have a list of selected trades in the area. I have no personal experience of how knowledgeable these guys are or the success or otherwise of such installations but having no involvement in the design of the installation or the supply of components seems risky to me & may give an obvious “opt out” of any responsibility if your installation fails to live up to expectations. We had one instance of a fitter ruining a customer supplied pump through incorrect installation & then walking away leaving him to pick up the £300 tab for a replacement pump; the manufacturer won't honour any warranty claim unless it's been correctly installed. I would advise caution if they have not been fully involved in the system design & specification of components. It’s not complicated but certain rules must be followed to ensure good results &, as I said, it’s surprising just how many get it wrong.

Our heating system is ancient (we've moved into a fixer-upper of a house, oh yes, this will not be the last subject I pick this forum's brains on!). It's a condensing boiler with a cold header tank in the loft, and a hot water cylinder at floor level on the first floor.

I assume you have gravity fed HW &CW storage tanks? What capacity are they?

The shower will be positioned higher than the hot water tank. Due to the size, shape and layout of the bathroom, the pump will need to be mounted in the loft space. Hence the need for a NH pump. The water pressure isn't great at the moment - for a tap it's fine, but the shower feels like it doesn't get you properly wet!

The need for a NH pump is not just based on pump location, be very careful with a loft mounted pump. It’s important to remember that although you can mount a NH pump above the HWS tank, it must still be installed a minimum of 200mm below the bottom of the CWS tank (600mm in the case of a Salamander pump) or it won’t work.

I am now going to set about finding the best price for the Monsoon Universal 2.0 bar Twin pump. Any tips on where I should be looking?

Some if the cheapest sources of supply for most things these days are the Ebay shops; these are not auctions. Just find the supplier with the cheapest “Buy it now” including P&P & it’s delivered a few days later.