Negative feed shower pump
- Thread starter wood1e
- Start date
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Good Morning,
You could try an internet search for quiet negative head pumps and the main manufacturers should come up.
cheers
ken
You could try an internet search for quiet negative head pumps and the main manufacturers should come up.
cheers
ken
You are so right....
But I was hoping that an expert or at least someone with a minute or two more experience that me in these matters might be able to point me in the direction of a manufacturer/model.
Or even ones to stay away from
Many thanks
But I was hoping that an expert or at least someone with a minute or two more experience that me in these matters might be able to point me in the direction of a manufacturer/model.
Or even ones to stay away from
Many thanks
You probably won’t get much more of a pump expert on this Forum with a user name like kvsalamander 
; have a look here; //www.diynot.com/forums/plumbing/salamander-technical-support.334096/
but he’s not allowed to push his own pumps of course.
Stuart Turner Monsoon (sorry kv) or the Salamander Force or ESP are also good pumps but not sure if these will fit into your “cost effective” requirement which sounds like you want it cheap! Stuart Turner Showermate or other budget pumps may suit you better but in all honesty they are not in the same league.
Whatever pump you choose, it needs to be correctly installed in accordance with the MI’s. We get many posts on the forum from people who incorrectly install or skimp on the installation costs only to post asking why their pump either doesn’t work as they anticipated or has failed completely.
; have a look here; //www.diynot.com/forums/plumbing/salamander-technical-support.334096/but he’s not allowed to push his own pumps of course.
Stuart Turner Monsoon (sorry kv) or the Salamander Force or ESP are also good pumps but not sure if these will fit into your “cost effective” requirement which sounds like you want it cheap! Stuart Turner Showermate or other budget pumps may suit you better but in all honesty they are not in the same league.
Whatever pump you choose, it needs to be correctly installed in accordance with the MI’s. We get many posts on the forum from people who incorrectly install or skimp on the installation costs only to post asking why their pump either doesn’t work as they anticipated or has failed completely.
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Many thanks for that.
I didn't notice Mr Salamander's name!! It's been a long week!!
Although cheap would be good, I think I am going to have to splash out, as we never bargined on having the pump in the airing cupboard!!
But then I never knew you couldn't have a pump on the same level as the water tank!!
Still such is life.
Got a plumber to fit it, so fingers crossed he will know what the MI's fitting regs are.
Many thanks for the link.
I didn't notice Mr Salamander's name!! It's been a long week!!
Although cheap would be good, I think I am going to have to splash out, as we never bargined on having the pump in the airing cupboard!!
But then I never knew you couldn't have a pump on the same level as the water tank!!
Still such is life.
Got a plumber to fit it, so fingers crossed he will know what the MI's fitting regs are.
Many thanks for the link.
Have a look on youtube too, for example this video gives an idea of the noise of a reasonably installed pump (though not -ve) The guy has the pump on a concrete slab ontop of a foam mat, along with the correct flange etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKw3Teeq-yM
It's what I will be aiming for if I ever get round to improving the installation I inherited when I bought my house.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKw3Teeq-yM
It's what I will be aiming for if I ever get round to improving the installation I inherited when I bought my house.
Best place for it, as close to the HWC as possible.
It’s reasonable for you to expect so but if only that were true. If the guy is a good & experienced installer/plumber than you’ll likely be OK. It's not rocket science but correctly installing a well designed pumped shower circuit is a little more involved than general plumbing.
We’ve also had many cases of “trade installed” systems giving problems & when you start to delve into the detail, it becomes obvious whoever installed it didn’t have a clue
be careful how you chose your plumber!Many thanks for that, it sound a lot quieter than my old shower with built in pump.
Which will please the wife!! Just a shame we can't have it in the loft!!
Anyway will hunt out a stuart or salamander as they appear to have the build quality. oh a slab of concrete!!
Which will please the wife!! Just a shame we can't have it in the loft!!
Anyway will hunt out a stuart or salamander as they appear to have the build quality. oh a slab of concrete!!
Download the fitting instructions and familiarise yourself, then ask the plumber to explain the fitting to you before you let him do it just to make sure he knows what he's doing.
For mine, they should have used an essex or salamander flange for the hot (nothing was used) and correct pipe to the pump, plus run the correct length of pipe from the cold tank (rather than just t-ing off somewhere convenient using the wrong size pipe).
If it's not fitted correctly the mfr probably wont honour the warranty.
I would have to agree that fitting the pump at the base of the hot water cylinder is the best location for it with a suitable top entry flange fitted to your cylinder.
With regards to the instructions, I would try to make yourself familiar with them even before the plumber installs the pump as this way you can keep an eye on work as it progresses.
cheers
With regards to the instructions, I would try to make yourself familiar with them even before the plumber installs the pump as this way you can keep an eye on work as it progresses.
cheers
Many thanks Karis...
We wouldn't be in this little pickle if the brother in law who fitted the hot and cold pipes for a loft based pump, had known that you cannot have a pump on the same level the water tank.
Or the hot and cold water pipes into the shower being in the loft void (and therefore on same level as water tank), means we need a negative (therfore more expensive) rather than a positive pump!!
Such is life....constantly in the sh*t, just the depth that varies!!!
We wouldn't be in this little pickle if the brother in law who fitted the hot and cold pipes for a loft based pump, had known that you cannot have a pump on the same level the water tank.
Or the hot and cold water pipes into the shower being in the loft void (and therefore on same level as water tank), means we need a negative (therfore more expensive) rather than a positive pump!!
Such is life....constantly in the sh*t, just the depth that varies!!!
no a real plumber is fitting the pump and connecting up the loo sink etc.
I think the pipes can be moved...the ones waiting for a pump that is never coming. If not they will have to run them down from the loft back into the airing cupboard.
Mr Salamander - It seems you have strict installation instructions...Which is understandable, but are you sure you have them to make sure everything works properly...or just so you can point to 1 million and 1 critical installation points, if the pump did go wrong, you not having to pay out on a warranty claim?
Sorry being a little cynical!!
I understand the point about learning about all this plumbing stuff. But why should I bother when I hire a professional? I don't stand over my accountants shoulders!!
I think the pipes can be moved...the ones waiting for a pump that is never coming. If not they will have to run them down from the loft back into the airing cupboard.
Mr Salamander - It seems you have strict installation instructions...Which is understandable, but are you sure you have them to make sure everything works properly...or just so you can point to 1 million and 1 critical installation points, if the pump did go wrong, you not having to pay out on a warranty claim?
Sorry being a little cynical!!
I understand the point about learning about all this plumbing stuff. But why should I bother when I hire a professional? I don't stand over my accountants shoulders!!
I think an Essex flange is a far superior option but many don’t like the idea of cutting a hole in the side of a £200 storage cylinder but it’s not as bad as it sounds; you just have to have confidence.
As sugested, it may be better to move the pipes, you may then be able to fit a less expensive positive head pump. If you have up & over pipework from the pump, it must be vented or you will end up with continual air locking.
The other thing to watch for is the size of pipe work he uses. For all but the smallest pumps, 22mm is best all the way to the shower mixer valve but it should at least be used to the pump inlets. Outlet size can be reduced down to 15mm but it depends on the distance from the pump to your shower, the shower output required & your expectations! Decent shower mixers/heads & all of the larger pumps require high volume as well as pressure to deliver their full potential. A clue is the look at the size of the pump fittings/flexies, don’t let him start reducing down to 15mm if they are all 22mm, at least not on the inlet side.
As sugested, it may be better to move the pipes, you may then be able to fit a less expensive positive head pump. If you have up & over pipework from the pump, it must be vented or you will end up with continual air locking.
The other thing to watch for is the size of pipe work he uses. For all but the smallest pumps, 22mm is best all the way to the shower mixer valve but it should at least be used to the pump inlets. Outlet size can be reduced down to 15mm but it depends on the distance from the pump to your shower, the shower output required & your expectations! Decent shower mixers/heads & all of the larger pumps require high volume as well as pressure to deliver their full potential. A clue is the look at the size of the pump fittings/flexies, don’t let him start reducing down to 15mm if they are all 22mm, at least not on the inlet side.
No problem,
To be honest with you, yes, they do need to be followed as to ensure the pump works well and has the lifespan expected for a pump. If they are not followed the pump probably would not fail immediately but would fail prematurely. They may seem strict but a descent plumber would find most of them second nature and understand why they are in place.
Even if we were to attend site for a failed pump and the system was not 100% correct, we would look to see if that's what has caused the pump to fail. If it had not caused the failure we may not be able to change the pump but would certainly leave a replacement.
I hope that helps.
cheers
To be honest with you, yes, they do need to be followed as to ensure the pump works well and has the lifespan expected for a pump. If they are not followed the pump probably would not fail immediately but would fail prematurely. They may seem strict but a descent plumber would find most of them second nature and understand why they are in place.
Even if we were to attend site for a failed pump and the system was not 100% correct, we would look to see if that's what has caused the pump to fail. If it had not caused the failure we may not be able to change the pump but would certainly leave a replacement.
I hope that helps.
cheers
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