Outside Sockets

[andycase007]

Hi All
Just a little advice please.
At the front of my house is my electric cupboard in my living room. At present there is my main Consumer Unit and a 2nd one. This used to be for storage heaters before i mived in, so it is now redundant.
What i would like to have is 2 or 3 external weatherproof sockets (1 on the front of my house and 2 on the back), just to run things like a mower, perhaps a water feature. Thats about it.
I am currently digging a small drainage channel around the house as the previous occupant had built the concrete drive above my DPC in places. I thought it would be a good opportunity to run cable from the front of the house to the back ready for the sockets.
I can drill straight through the wall, bury the cable in the small trench and then get a sparky to connect to my unused C.U etc.
I know someone who signs off others work if done properly of course!

So, can i use SWA 4mm cable for this?
Do i have to bury very far down as i am struggling to get further than about 100mm? The trench will be filled with decorative stone to aid in water drainage so the cable will not be visible or moved again.

Am i missing anything? I know that Part P means i need it signing off etc, even though i have no intention of moving house (not that that is the only reason why we do get things signed off of course), but i just want to keep the manual labour costs down and be prepared for him.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[electronicsuk]

So, can i use SWA 4mm cable for this?

4mmsq 2 or (preferably) 3 core SWA should be up to the job, but it does of course depend on the length of the cable and the size and type of protective device you intend to install.

Do i have to bury very far down as i am struggling to get further than about 100mm? The trench will be filled with decorative stone to aid in water drainage so the cable will not be visible or moved again.

The cable should be buried 600mm deep, otherwise your electrician friend may decide not to lend his name to your work.

Am i missing anything? I know that Part P means i need it signing off etc, even though i have no intention of moving house (not that that is the only reason why we do get things signed off of course), but i just want to keep the manual labour costs down and be prepared for him.

Well, if you haven't already, you would benefit from involving an electrician upfront and asking him these questions, as you may otherwise waste time and money on something he is unhappy with.

This isn't really the way notification is supposed to work - the correct procedure would be to inform LABC of your intentions and have them inspect and test. Sadly, this often isn't the way it works, with them refusing to pay for the tests despite you having shelled out a couple of hundred pounds for the privilege, so I appreciate how you may be better off involving a spark.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I can drill straight through the wall, bury the cable in the small trench and then get a sparky to connect to my unused C.U etc.

Not really.

It may not be possible to gland armoured cable to the unused CU.

The unused CU might not have RCD protection.

Depending on what type of tariff you were on before, and are on now, and how the storage heater time switching worked then the unused CU might only be live during the night or might never be live at all.

I know someone who signs off others work if done properly of course!

If you mean that he is prepared to lie to the council about having done the work himself in return from a bribe from you then you should have nothing to do with him.

Firstly he is clearly irresponsible, and do you really want someone irresponsible and criminal checking your electrical work? What other corners does he cut? Has he got insurance?

Secondly if he gets caught doing that sort of thing, and sooner or later he probably will, what if they start going back over the records?

Do i have to bury very far down as i am struggling to get further than about 100mm? The trench will be filled with decorative stone to aid in water drainage so the cable will not be visible or moved again.

The wiring regulations require that the cable be deep enough to avoid being damaged by any reasonably foreseeable disturbance of the ground.

The guideline for that is 450mm, but IMO a cable that close to the wall and covered with decorative stone isn't likely to be attacked by vigorous spade work or a JCB, so IMO it's OK. You'll need warning tape over it.

But it's not me signing the EIC, so it's the opinion of your electrician that matters.


What about using glass chippings instead of stone and also burying an LED rope light connected to the porch lighting so that future occupants will be in no doubt that there's something there?

Am i missing anything?

Could people steal electricity from you via the socket at the front? You might want to have that switched from inside.

I know that Part P means i need it signing off etc,

Read the Wiki article to see exactly how it works.

but i just want to keep the manual labour costs down and be prepared for him.

Seriously, run a mile from any cowboys prepared to falsify declarations and get a trustworthy electrician. It doesn't sound like a big job - as long as he's happy with the depth you could drill the hole and fix the sockets to the walls all ready for him. But there are things about your existing installation which need checking first, so find your electrician and agree with him what he's happy for you to do in preparation.

 

[ColJack]

if it's running that close to the house anyway, why not clip it to the wall?

 

[1john]

If you are using armoured cable and the old consumer unit doesn't hace RCD protection then you can install RCD socket outlets.
What sort of consumer unit is it, not an old wooden wylex one?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

RCD Masterseals are what, £60-70 each?

 

[geraint]

The guideline for that is 450mm, but IMO a cable that close to the wall and covered with decorative stone isn't likely to be attacked by vigorous spade work or a JCB, so IMO it's OK. You'll need warning tape over it.


in your opinion.... could you advise. are you qualified to give an opinion in underground cabling.. surely a fork or spade can do utmost damage to a cable barely buried under topsoil..
do you think that warning tape might just spoil the flower bed.....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But in this case the cable isn't going to be under soil, or in a flowerbed - it's up against the house covered with pebbles, and so it's not likely to be poked at with a fork.

And I already said that it's the opinion of the electrician doing the work that matters.

 

[geraint]

But in this case the cable isn't going to be under soil, or in a flowerbed - it's up against the house covered with pebbles, and so it's not likely to be poked at with a fork.

but of course it could be tomorrow...

alongside a house covered with pebbles....
so what rule states that that is within guidelines

i was always tought that it is best to let them think you are a fool.......

i am sure you know the rest of the saying....

 

[geraint]

i have come across someone with your forum name on another site...
apparently you have been banned... so now, surely its....

ban all ban all sheds...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But in this case the cable isn't going to be under soil, or in a flowerbed - it's up against the house covered with pebbles, and so it's not likely to be poked at with a fork.

but of course it could be tomorrow...

Why would you reasonably expect that someone would try to remove pebbles with a fork?

Have you ever tried to do that? Did it work well?

so what rule states that that is within guidelines

I think you need to go back to basics and try to grasp the difference between rules and guidelines, because your question looks as though you've got the relationship between the two completely AAF.

But be that as it may, I suggest you read 522.8.10, and see if you can come up with a reasonably foreseeable activity which would take place on a narrow strip between a concrete surface and the wall of a house which would damage an armoured cable covered by a few inches of pebbles and flagged by a bright yellow and black warning tape.

As you do so please note that 522.8.10 refers to "reasonably foreseeable disturbance of the ground", not "any form of ground disturbance known to man".

i was always tought that it is best to let them think you are a fool.......

i am sure you know the rest of the saying....

I do indeed, and I'm bemused by the dichotomy of you knowing it and you making the posts that you have.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

i have come across someone with your forum name on another site...
apparently you have been banned... so now, surely its....

ban all ban all sheds...

Can you make a rational case for that?

 

[geraint]

think you need to go back to basics


the words black pot etc. come to mind

ban all bas.... i always like to learn. but from someone that knows. not reading or googling... hands on experience on a site is a wonderfull thing... maybe one day you will try it...

 

[geraint]

i have come across someone with your forum name on another site...
apparently you have been banned... so now, surely its....

ban all ban all sheds...

Can you make a rational case for that?

are you calling me a liar or have you been banned from a similar site....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm certainly not calling you a liar - I took "ban all ban all sheds" to be an expression of desire on your part relating to this site, and I offer fulsome apologies if I got that wrong and it's not at all what you would like to see happen.