double switch problem

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Hi there, hope someone can help me!
Im trying to wire up a double switch, but on removing the old switch Im a bit confused as to whats going on. The switch needs to control both an interior and exterior light and has two sets of L1, L2, L3 and an earth. See attached:


advice would be greatly appreciated
 
Did you take a picture or jot down where each wire went in the original set up?
Assuming you have power coming from a ceiling rose(s) to the switch then you will have a live and switch live for each lamp.
Under normal circumstances with the power off the red cable goes into L1 the black (with red sleeve) into L2 for each set of red and black cables. Make sure they come from the same set.

Incidentally, I hope that the black wire to the left is not attached to the earth wire terminal block and its just the way the photograph was taken.
 
Thanks for the reply.

The earth IS conected to the black wire, hence my confusion. I took notes of where wires went in the original switch, but it was an old switch which looked very different, and now I cant find my notes.
 
Thanks for the reply.

The earth IS conected to the black wire, hence my confusion. I took notes of where wires went in the original switch, but it was an old switch which looked very different, and now I cant find my notes.
The old switch may have been one way switches with just C and L1 on both gangs.
The switch you have is a two gang two way variety. The same principle applies - what went in C now goes in L1 and what went in L1 goes in L2. L3 is not used.
The bigger concern is the black wire, if it is a neutral, should not be connected to the earth............ :shock:
 
ok, thanks!
Could the 'neutral' wire have been used as and earth? - I've seen some dodgy diy done by the previous occupant. Is there a way I can check?
 
Was the old switch a single or double switch?

It could be that the black connected to earth is a spare core and was earthed (although it should have been sleeved).

Was a strapper cable fitted with the old double switch so you have one live and two switched lives?
 
Im sorry, I dont know, should have just called a electrician! There was an additional wire connecting to two points on the original switch.
..Ive noticed another very short wire coming from the one with the earth'd neutral:

Dont know if that tells you anything?
 
Yep, call an electrician.
At a guess someone has installed a light to that point and not having a clue how to do it and has discovered there's only L and Ls at the switch (and no neutral which is normal).
In order to make the light work they have played about with the wires and connected the neutral for the additional light to the earth wire which is both dangerous and illegal.
This has also resulted in no earth to the back box and no earth to the new fitting.
 
There was an additional wire connecting to two points on the original switch.
It sounds like you have one live and two switched live cores split across two cables. This is not uncommon, particularly when an additional light has been added to what was originally a one point switch. The additional wire connected across the switch was a strapper taking the live from one switch to the next. It will have been connected to the same point on the old switch as one of the cores - if you can remember which one that was then that is your live feed to the switches. That (and the strapper) would go into L1 on one of the new switches and the other end of the strapper into L1 on the other switch. The two remaining cores will be the switched lives and get connected to L2 on each switch.

If you can't remember which core is the live feed you can test for ~240V difference with earth with a suitable multimetre but don't do so unless you are confident in what you are doing. Given you have no neutrals at your switch you can also identify which core is which by numbering them and trying a pair at a time between L1/L2 on a single switch till you get a working pair, then swap one core for the one in the other cable and see if it switches the other light. Then reassemble all accordingly. (If you are confident enough to try that then make sure you terminate the core not being used in an insulated terminal/choc block just in case you have non-standard wiring or a fault in the cable. Obviously turn off the power between changes.)

If it was done properly to start with then it is likely the red core from the cable that had both cores and the earth terminated is the live feed, with the black core from the same cable the switched live for the first (original) light, and the second cable added later on to control the outside light. That is a guess though. If the outside light is DI and has no earth that might explain the cut off CPC on the same cable (although that is incorrect and should be rectified, I have come across that scenario before).

Whilst that black core that is connected to the CPC/earth of the other cable could be a neutral if the other light does not obtain it elsewhere, I would risk a guess that it is unused and has been tied to earth as it should be if a T&E core is unused. However it should be sleeved in green and yellow at both ends to show this, and it is not impossible that some incompetant fool has connected the other end of the CPC in the other cable to neutral as suggested above so you can't assume it is unused without testing.

The bare copper CPC that has been cut short on that cable must be connected to earth at both ends as well (or at least the supply end if the other end is a DI fitting). If you cannot safely pull more cable through and extend that wire then you may need to ask an electrician to extend it for you.

It needent cost much for a small call out by an electrician on their way home, and they could easily identify each of the cores and test that extra black core to determine if it just needs sleeving, or if it is actually a dangerous bodge. If you aren't confident you can test safely then don't take any risks - get an electrician to look for you.
 

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