Oversized rads a good idea?

[wiffola]

Ok the company came over and don't seem to know anything about the central boiler e-classic 1450 that they are actually
selling!

Big waste of time there!

I've read a lot of bad reviews of these models for smoking out the neighbours, just have a look on YouTube. Although we are pretty isolated where we are - we are still semi detached and wouldn't want to annoy our lovely neighbours.

Ok another avenue I'd like to explore with you guys is an air to air source heat pump.

We have an open plan downstairs (3 rooms lounge, dinning and kitchen no hall or anything) which is where we spend all our time during the day.

Floor area is 40m2. 4 windows and two external doors.

I'm thinking a split ASHP air to air system just heating this downstairs area. 2 internal air blowers one in lounge and one in dinning area. Warm air can flow into the kitchen. 2kw PV panels will cover a bit of the leccy in the day and then in the evening we could time the LPG boiler to kick in to heat upstairs?

Air to air is fitted a lot commercially so there must be a wealth of support and stats out there.

Can anyone make any suggestions?

 

[wiffola]

I have looked at the valiant split system that had 4 indoor units but it would mean leaving open doors upstairs as upstairs we have 3 bedrooms and a bathroom. I assume idea is that you have 2 units upstairs and 2 downstairs?

Then that would be door all our heating and just use LPG combi boiler for hot water - which has proven to not use much LPG at all.

It would be an easy install as unit could go on gable end of the house and easily access lounge, dinning room, master bedroom and 2nd bedroom. Kitchen wouldn't really need one, but that leaves bedroom 3 with no heat....hmm

Any thoughts on my last to posts?

 

[Corgigrouch]

Don't bother with Vaillant or Worcester air to air, they are cheap junk with a big name badge on.. Look at a decent brand who have mor experiance with aircon/ heat pumps... Daikin, Toshiba, Sanyo, Fujitsu, Panasonic.... Also avoid multiple indoor units run from one out door unit, go for a one to one. A ducted unit upstairs in the bedrooms is also an option...

BUT, I too would look at the Biomass option again... The gear that you were quoted for may be super deluxe gold plated top notch quality but perhaps If you spoke to someone like Baxi, they may be able to point you in the direction of someone who will install their gear

 

[dcawkwell]

Forget wood.
Air source everytime.
Works a treat I have 2 air con units heating in winter and cooling in summer.
They are very efficient and cheap to run.
Using wood is a giant leap backwards.
But air source heat pump to wet central heating is the right answer to someone without access the natural gas.

 

[Norcon]

What units have you fitted dcawkwell?
Are your two units the only heat source?
What are their heat outputs?

 

[dcawkwell]

What units have you fitted dcawkwell?
Are your two units the only heat source?
What are their heat outputs?

The two units I have are cheap ones I bought them from ebay around
about £600 I think it was.
Single external unit two internal units. One for bedroom
and another for the lounge. Both rooms are approx 4m to 5m square with high ceilings 9ft or there abouts. I think each internal unit from memory is approx 3.5kw output. They easily cool the rooms in the summer and easily heat the rooms to very hot in the coldest days of the winter.
I have radiators but it is cheaper when we are just in the one room to
run the air con.

I have a daikin unit as well. I'd say the daikin unit is the quality unit
but in terms of performance there isn't much to choose. Both have been in for about 5 years and have only needed a basic clean.

 

[Corgigrouch]

But air source heat pump to wet central heating is the right answer to someone without access the natural gas.

Problem is, when the home owner needs the heat most, a 12kW unit no longer produces 12kW add to that the problem of humid air at close to freezing point and this is when they really struggle.... The OP has a propane fired combi and it has been suggested that the combi could be retained as a back up for very cold weather but he doesn't want that, he wants a single source of heat.... hence the biomass option. Air to water needs a better secondary source of heat than the electric elements that most come with.

Most of my work is air conditioning and refrigeration and air to air units are very good for rapidly heating a room or area... I use my heat pumps for heating in the autumn and for warming my living room, office or bedroom after the gas heating has switched off, if I'm still up and they are great for heating one room at a time but for heating the whole house, a wet system is still my first choice.... I'm throwing my hat into the biomass ring for the future

 

[wiffola]

Thanks guys - all very helpful.

The downside for me with air to air is that although downstairs is ideal (as it's open plan), it's not so good upstairs with 4 separate rooms to heat. It's also not a way to get rid of our LPG.

I'll keep air to air on the back burner and look into the baxi biomass option again.

Few queries on this direction:

1. Can the baxi range be installed in a normal garden shed, right next to house?
2. What type of store is best used with them? The 1000ltr tank one company specified for their gasification wood boiler just isn't feasible for our space.
3. What ball park figures are we looking at?

So far we have ASHP air to water £8-12k, gasification with 1000ltr tank £14-18, had one quote for GSHP with 2 bores for £30k!!! Hideous!

I'd say £8-10k feels a sensible amount for us.

 

[Norcon]

Which baxi biomass model are you referring too?

 

[wiffola]

Which baxi biomass model are you referring too?

I think the baxi solo innova looks suitable.

We have a 3 bed semi 1895 with 90m2 floor area.

 

[Norcon]

So the 32kw model you are looking at is nearly £5k for the unit alone.
Plus the buffer store which is another couple of grand and necessary with a gasifier.

This one cost less than £4k completed. Just about to get the weeks garbage tipped into it when I snapped this.....and has saved at least £1000 quids of oil since it was brought online so definately not a step backwards.

No rhi here though. Not yet anyway.
And no sludge buckets either...

 

[wiffola]

Thanks for the pic - i'm jealous.

How big is your buffer store?

You burn your household waste?!

 

[Norcon]

No buffer store. Straight to the heating system with hw priority. Yes its gets the household waste.
Did this for one of the brothers. Let my pipework skills loose on him. lol
He's well pleased though. Family of six in that gaffe.

 

[wiffola]

Thanks for the info - fancy doing an install in Cardiff?lol

I'm going to explore some biomass options this week.

In the meantime I've been looking at air to air options on eBay - as recommended on here.

It really does seem like air source heaters could be a cost effective solution.

We could leave LPG boiler for DHW (not ideal but I can live with that), then one heater downstairs and one heater upstairs on landing with doors left open during the day. Downstairs is competely open plan so not an
issue.

I know I've said I want a complete solution but to only spend a few grand it's very tempting. Heating is our biggest issue not the DHW as much.

Our PV panels can supplement the running costs during the day.

We can easily zone the house too.

I'm thinking something like 2 of these toshibas http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-5Kw-12-...Cooling_Air&hash=item2a12ed408f#ht_1758wt_689

Or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7Kw-24-00...Cooling_Air&hash=item27ba3378d8#ht_1902wt_689

Any disadvantages I should be aware of?

Why are split systems a no no?

Any thoughts?

 

[Corgigrouch]

Avoid!..... They are not Toshiba units. The compressor may be sourced from Toshiba but the rest of the components are from somewhere else... If you need parts or a repair, you will struggle to find parts. If you call Toshiba for a warranty repair then they won't be able to help. They are fixed speed compressors too so you would need to have a separate circuit and breaker for each unit to avoid interfering with other electrical equipment and you will need a motor start type MCB which are not always available for all consumer units.... Look for inverter controlled compressors which vary their output depending on the heating or cooling that they need to do....

If you look closely you will see the word Compressor under the large and convincing looking TOSHIBA logo... I've seen a fair few of these and the quality inside is pretty poor