Red arrow pilot dead.

[pred]

In the early 70s i was stationed at RAF Wattisham on Lightnings, it was about then a Harrier at Wittering got into difficulty the jockey banged out but unfortunatly by time the canopy had jetisoned the a/c had rolled over and ejected him through the hanger.

Lightnings had to have a speed of about 90knots, on the runway for a successful escape, after the incident with the Harrier their seat was upgraded to zero/zero, sat on the ground stationary, and they, to the best of my knowledge, were the first a/c to get canopies fitted with an explosive charge.

Back then there were two handles, one beween the crotch one over their head, at low level if you banged out at 500mph the dust in the air acts like sandpaper so the overhead handle came down with a shield to save your face but due to the position was dangerous for the spine even though it is a three stage rocket to take you clear.

Martin Baker had all the patents on the seat, so i assume its still his company that leases the seats to the MOD.

 

[LooPrEvil]

Martin Baker had all the patents on the seat, so i assume its still his company that leases the seats to the MOD.

Why would the MOD lease the seats, and why would the company want to lease them?

 

[joe-90]

I used to love those Lightnings when I was a kid on holiday in Anglesey - I've never heard a noise like it before or since.

 

[Inky Pete]

Martin Baker still make the seats.

It's the Martin Baker Mk10 which is used in the Hawk, the Tornado and the Tucano.

 

[Alarm]

You mean this lot ?

Thats what I said, there was a very good program about the ejector seats a while back.

The clever people http://www.martin-baker.com/home.aspx[/QUOTE]

On the first page here?

 

[pred]

Martin Baker had all the patents on the seat, so i assume its still his company that leases the seats to the MOD.

Why would the MOD lease the seats, and why would the company want to lease them?

The story as i was told in training was; during WW2 Martin Baker designed an a/c that flew rings around the Spitfire but as he was a private co. the Govt. told him to go away, when he developed the bang seat he put patents on everything, if you ever see a seat you can quite easily find the chrome plaque that states "this is the property of Martin Baker", 30yrs ago it was top notch kit, if the jockey banged out at high altitude he could lose conciousness and the seat would save him, firstly a drouge shute deployed which kept the seat stable as he plumited down, there was an auxillary air bottle to breathe from, at a predetermined height the seat would cut him loose and pull his main chute as it did so, that is the basics as there was a lot more going on, besides which that wasn't my trade, i was engines (waiting for a bowser)

Anyway to get his own back, he made the Govt. pay through the nose for snubbing him during WW2.

 

[Inky Pete]

Supermarine (who made the Spitfire) were a private company. So were Hawker (Hurricane), A. V. Roe (Lancaster), Vickers (Wellington). In fact, there was no nationalised aircraft industry in WW2.

The aircraft you're referring to, the Martin Baker MB5, didn't have its first prototype flight until May 1944 - far to late in the war for it to enter production. And besides, from that point on it was jet powered aircraft which proved to be the future.

 

[LooPrEvil]

Martin Baker had all the patents on the seat, so i assume its still his company that leases the seats to the MOD.

Why would the MOD lease the seats, and why would the company want to lease them?

The story as i was told in training was; during WW2 Martin Baker designed an a/c that flew rings around the Spitfire but as he was a private co. the Govt. told him to go away, when he developed the bang seat he put patents on everything, if you ever see a seat you can quite easily find the chrome plaque that states "this is the property of Martin Baker", 30yrs ago it was top notch kit, if the jockey banged out at high altitude he could lose conciousness and the seat would save him, firstly a drouge shute deployed which kept the seat stable as he plumited down, there was an auxillary air bottle to breathe from, at a predetermined height the seat would cut him loose and pull his main chute as it did so, that is the basics as there was a lot more going on, besides which that wasn't my trade, i was engines (waiting for a bowser)

Anyway to get his own back, he made the Govt. pay through the nose for snubbing him during WW2.

Unless I has misunderstood you pred, there is a difference between a patent and leasing.

A patent is a means of protecting the inventor from having his idea copied, so he basically has sole production rights. But anybody can sell the goods, with the buyer achieving title (ownership) to the goods.

A lease is a means of somebody acquiring goods, but not acquiring title to them. The lease is for a predetermined period for an agreed price. Title resides with the company who are leasing them. Title can transfer if after the lease period the leasee, paid an additional agreed price to the leasor

 

[pred]

Whats this the Spanish inquissition?

Loo as i understood the seat always belongs to Martin Baker, as printed on the plaque which is rivited to the seat, i cant remember it word for word but it states it is the property of M. B. and remains the property of M.B. perhaps its on hire or something and not leased, is there a difference?

Here we go can i have any last request?

 

[LooPrEvil]

Whats this the Spanish inquissition?

My point being because something is patented, it doesn't mean it cannot be purchased!! You INITIALLY stated it was patented and assumed it must be leased.

Your revised comments about MB retaining ownership could well be correct. The difference between hire and lease is that a hire agreement tends to be for a short period, and lease is a longer term arrangement.

Another reason it could have the plate on it could be because the seat was being tested for suitability and had been loaned for that purpose.

 

[Alarm]

IIRC from the program the kit is totally patent protected, locked down.
Nothing can come close without breaking patents,hence the belief of leasing.

Each seat is purchased, and then Bakers train the tech on the maintenance.


He did have it in for the MOD, but this perseverance has saved many many lives in aircraft of all nations.

This may sound weird - but, only Dyson, Microsoft and Apple have followed this ferocious product protection as he did.

All 3 are top of the game.

 

[LooPrEvil]

As I suspected Alarm, I could not see the MOD leasing the seats.

However I cannot understand why the plates that pred claims are fitted, are actually fitted because that puts an unnecessary cost on the price of each seat.

However I would not put it past any Government Dept to waste taxpayers money in such a way, as they dont give a damn about giving us value for money.