C
HETAS Engineers a bunch of lying so and so's....
- Thread starter mbga9pgf
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Wow this is a long post! I've not read all of it, but flicked through a lot.
I remember reading somewhere that someone once said - you are worth whatever someone is willing to pay - I employ quite a lot of people in the line of the work I carry out, and generally find I pay more to use the right people as opposed to the cheaper less efficient....I have a set gang day rate for me and my 2 labourers, if someone doesn't like it they can use someone else, surely thats the same with every trade?
I'm also VAT registered and although sometimes it can work in your favour with the claimback's etc, I also miss out on a lot of the smaller 'bread and butter' jobs i'd like to be doing as well, I can't compete on price with the cash non VAT brigade.
Just going back to the money thing, I have a couple of mates who are both in the sales game, one in recruitment and earns about 150k a year and the other in account management earning about the same - they don't keep the hours I do, and have an admin team around them to make sure they comply with regs etc - but they believe that they are worth the massive fee's they charge their customers and they get paid it! Wish I did.....
Perhaps we should all believe a little more in our own skills and capabilities and charge accordingly (and try not to be bitter to those earning more than us!)(We could all train to be HETAS if we wanted!)
I remember reading somewhere that someone once said - you are worth whatever someone is willing to pay - I employ quite a lot of people in the line of the work I carry out, and generally find I pay more to use the right people as opposed to the cheaper less efficient....I have a set gang day rate for me and my 2 labourers, if someone doesn't like it they can use someone else, surely thats the same with every trade?
I'm also VAT registered and although sometimes it can work in your favour with the claimback's etc, I also miss out on a lot of the smaller 'bread and butter' jobs i'd like to be doing as well, I can't compete on price with the cash non VAT brigade.
Just going back to the money thing, I have a couple of mates who are both in the sales game, one in recruitment and earns about 150k a year and the other in account management earning about the same - they don't keep the hours I do, and have an admin team around them to make sure they comply with regs etc - but they believe that they are worth the massive fee's they charge their customers and they get paid it! Wish I did.....
Perhaps we should all believe a little more in our own skills and capabilities and charge accordingly (and try not to be bitter to those earning more than us!)(We could all train to be HETAS if we wanted!)
When you have to pay these fees it is different. It is not really a choice and you can't really go elsewhere.
The laws of the land state that this work needs to be signed off to be safe and comply with building regs. The Peterborough City Council (Where we live) have categorically said that they do not have the manpower to come out and check installations and that I should look for someone HETAS registered!!!
Oh great, so the general public in this area have no alternative but to contact one of only 4-registered engineers in the whole city of over 1.3 million residents. That doesn't sound fair to me. There would be literally hundreds of builders willing to do the work, but they are not HETAS registered so can touch it if building regs are to be followed correctly.
This has nothing to do with how skilled these engineers are or how long they have trained to carry out this work and all about a legal situation that makes them an essential trade with no competition currently to speak of.
Some high flying office boys in the city of London that have proved themselves in various blue chip companies and worked their way up the greasy pole are either very skilled or very lucky, but they are not earning those wages because the laws of the land have made them a very rare breed of tradesmen and until more HETAS engineers get into the industry or the city councils start undertaking inspections again, nothing will change and we will all be forced to pay silly money.
As for your VAT. I am sorry to hear that you were undercut on a few of the smaller jobs, but hey, think how much tax/VAT you have saved for doing absolutely nothing!!
The laws of the land state that this work needs to be signed off to be safe and comply with building regs. The Peterborough City Council (Where we live) have categorically said that they do not have the manpower to come out and check installations and that I should look for someone HETAS registered!!!
Oh great, so the general public in this area have no alternative but to contact one of only 4-registered engineers in the whole city of over 1.3 million residents. That doesn't sound fair to me. There would be literally hundreds of builders willing to do the work, but they are not HETAS registered so can touch it if building regs are to be followed correctly.
This has nothing to do with how skilled these engineers are or how long they have trained to carry out this work and all about a legal situation that makes them an essential trade with no competition currently to speak of.
Some high flying office boys in the city of London that have proved themselves in various blue chip companies and worked their way up the greasy pole are either very skilled or very lucky, but they are not earning those wages because the laws of the land have made them a very rare breed of tradesmen and until more HETAS engineers get into the industry or the city councils start undertaking inspections again, nothing will change and we will all be forced to pay silly money.
As for your VAT. I am sorry to hear that you were undercut on a few of the smaller jobs, but hey, think how much tax/VAT you have saved for doing absolutely nothing!!
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I won't let myself get drawn into a long argument, but it sounds weird that you CC won't inspect any work! In Bristol where I do most of my work they are still very much checking these installations and have done one for a customer of mine recently - he did the install himself......and passed! Maybe you could use an external building control company like JHA or someone like that? Not sure if they do smaller jobs, but we've used them on bigger stuff in the past!!
If you don't like what someone charges - use someone else or do something else!
I'm not quite sure what you mean by TAX/VAT savings, but they all seems to equal themselves out in the end! I'm not any better off, and i'm doing more paperwork! I'd like to take on as much work as possible which is why I don't like loosing out on the smaller jobs, but c'est la vie - I have no choice! If I don't like it, I could fire the boys and downsize!
Goodluck to all the HETAS engineers....
Goodnight all....
If you don't like what someone charges - use someone else or do something else!
I'm not quite sure what you mean by TAX/VAT savings, but they all seems to equal themselves out in the end! I'm not any better off, and i'm doing more paperwork! I'd like to take on as much work as possible which is why I don't like loosing out on the smaller jobs, but c'est la vie - I have no choice! If I don't like it, I could fire the boys and downsize!
Goodluck to all the HETAS engineers....
Goodnight all....
I might have to call them again. Perhaps I just got the wrong person on the phone.
Please allow me to explain how we offset TAX and VAT.
We spend around £1000 per month on advertising property rentals, pay around £500 a month on other chargeable expenses like stationary, fuel, car servicing costs, telephone bills, insurance, postage, parking costs etc. These purchases attract VAT. Lets call it 20% (I know insurance is less, but for the benefit of the example) That's £250 we can claim back that month in VAT alone or £3000 per year. All we need to do is collect VAT from each of our customers, add it all up every 3-months and then deduct £250 x 3 = £750 and pay the difference to the VAT man. We have effectively saved £750 in VAT over that quarter and £3000 over the whole year. Not bad for doing nothing.
We then save a further 20% in corporation tax on everything to do with the business. So that same £1500 a month, minus the VAT element (Which is the remaining £1250) has another £208.33 knocked off. In other words tax and VAT reduces our £1500 monthly costs down to £1041.67. A saving of £5500 per year. Not bad for adding a bit of VAT to each invoice.
Oh and we are unable to buy a car and save any VAT, but vans can be bought without VAT, so a HETAS engineer who probably needs a van can save big time!
Please allow me to explain how we offset TAX and VAT.
We spend around £1000 per month on advertising property rentals, pay around £500 a month on other chargeable expenses like stationary, fuel, car servicing costs, telephone bills, insurance, postage, parking costs etc. These purchases attract VAT. Lets call it 20% (I know insurance is less, but for the benefit of the example) That's £250 we can claim back that month in VAT alone or £3000 per year. All we need to do is collect VAT from each of our customers, add it all up every 3-months and then deduct £250 x 3 = £750 and pay the difference to the VAT man. We have effectively saved £750 in VAT over that quarter and £3000 over the whole year. Not bad for doing nothing.
We then save a further 20% in corporation tax on everything to do with the business. So that same £1500 a month, minus the VAT element (Which is the remaining £1250) has another £208.33 knocked off. In other words tax and VAT reduces our £1500 monthly costs down to £1041.67. A saving of £5500 per year. Not bad for adding a bit of VAT to each invoice.
Oh and we are unable to buy a car and save any VAT, but vans can be bought without VAT, so a HETAS engineer who probably needs a van can save big time!
[quote="Steamerpoint";p="2578965"]FiremanT obviously likes a good debate.
Pretty much the most accurate thing you've written.
By breaking down your opponents post sentence by sentence you can attack each part in detail, thus destroying any shred of credibility it may have previously had!! Hmm..
Hmm. Only if the argument has no credibility.....
The bottom line is that HETAS en
gineers charge high fees because they can, not because they need to justify their lack of sick pay, need for holidays, pension plans or even free quotes.
Which I acknowledged early on. My point about the sick time and holidays etc is simply that you cannot multiply one particular weeks earnings by 52
to calculate "earnings". This is a repetitive mistake on this forum.
They are no more highly trained or qualified than other specialist building trades that charge significantly less
I don't disagree.
and I believe that it is possible for them to earn more than our doctors & surgeons that have undergone several years of full time training, just to keep their earnings in some sort of perspective!
EVERY GP earns well in excess of £100k. Surgeons, especially when taking on private cases are actually quite well remunerated. Their pensions are not to be sneezed at.
Being VAT registered does save them money. Actually, please tell me where there is a tangible cost, other than adding 20% to the bill
Ahem. You said it.20% . Your total gross turnover includes a mandatory payment to HRMC of 16.66%. (20% of invoice value). You can claim back the Vat paid on allowable costs. Effectively, for most business', this means a 16.6% charge on "profit" i.e. turnover less expenses. So, comared to a non VAT reg. business, you are always going to be more expensive, or make less profit on a particular job.
[i]They are effectively living in a VAT free world because everything they buy, which they can claim is for their business is tax & VAT deductable. That includes things like the van they bought, the tools they use, the radio they listen to on the job, even if it never leaves their house! The VAT man doesn't care as long as they charge us customers VAT on our bills. It costs them nothing to charge us and they can then claim the VAT back on all their related expenses, even if some of them are not true expenses!!
Tax accountants will apportion things against tax & VAT like a percentage of the engineer's mortgage, council tax, electricity bills, phone bills etc should the engineer work from home for example. We started our business from home around 20-years ago and saved a fortune, so anyone that says using an accountant is not a form of saving is clearly mistaken or being VAT registered is a cost rather than a saving unless they are selling goods, is completely wrong. Goods & services attract VAT and a HETAS engineer is clearly selling services[/i].
Please refer to my comment on credibility
2. The business has an income greater than £77,000. (Current UK VAT registration threshold.
If they do not sell goods or services over £77k per year, they don't need to charge VAT. They all do, so they must have chosen to charge it (Because it suits them to do so) or been forced to charge it because they are minted. Hmm.....
Sour grapes, your dead right and I am assuming most people that read this thread will be feeling the same! I am guessing most of us are not earning more than £77k per year with or without holidays or sick pay.
You surely do understand that £77K turnover has no real bearing on income
As it happens, I did not request a quote on a Sunday. This is when I was told he could come round, so perhaps he is busy earning £400 a day Monday to Saturday and fits his quotes in between going to church and his Sunday lunch!! If he wants to give up his Sunday to do the free quotes, that's up to him, but then I guess he is keeping the other days free to earn lots of money!
Monday - Saturday = 6 jobs. I am surprised he can do 6 surveys between ofering thanks to his deity and supping his ale on a Sunday.
A messy wood burner could work out cheaper to heat the house, given that we are all at the mercy of the utility companies. Buying your own wood allows you to shop around and accumulate enough wood for the following winter. Heating your house for £200 in timber compared to £700 in gas makes a lot of sense to me, ]
Have you actually had a wood burner, and paid for a years timber?
Anyway, I do like an argument, and I do believe that HETAS guys are taking advantage. But all your points are levelled regularly at most trades, and most are spurious. You admit you would charge more of you could get away with it, and a few years ago the papers were full of stories about accountants and lawyers giving up their careers to retrain as a plumber. £70K - £100K were regularly mentioned, and I am sure there were a few acheiving that. But the press were guilty of extrapulating a specific job earnings into an annual wage, which, I am afraid, you are guilty of.
An accuntant will only ensure that you claim the allowable expenses. And until the average plumber recieves a tax rebate every year, I won't accept that an accountant saves money, merely ensures that you don't pay to much. When you get into the stratospheric heights of ebay etc, then you may have an argument. But not the average Joe.
Pretty much the most accurate thing you've written.
By breaking down your opponents post sentence by sentence you can attack each part in detail, thus destroying any shred of credibility it may have previously had!! Hmm..
Hmm. Only if the argument has no credibility.....
The bottom line is that HETAS en
gineers charge high fees because they can, not because they need to justify their lack of sick pay, need for holidays, pension plans or even free quotes.
Which I acknowledged early on. My point about the sick time and holidays etc is simply that you cannot multiply one particular weeks earnings by 52
to calculate "earnings". This is a repetitive mistake on this forum.
They are no more highly trained or qualified than other specialist building trades that charge significantly less
I don't disagree.
and I believe that it is possible for them to earn more than our doctors & surgeons that have undergone several years of full time training, just to keep their earnings in some sort of perspective!
EVERY GP earns well in excess of £100k. Surgeons, especially when taking on private cases are actually quite well remunerated. Their pensions are not to be sneezed at.
Being VAT registered does save them money. Actually, please tell me where there is a tangible cost, other than adding 20% to the bill
Ahem. You said it.20% . Your total gross turnover includes a mandatory payment to HRMC of 16.66%. (20% of invoice value). You can claim back the Vat paid on allowable costs. Effectively, for most business', this means a 16.6% charge on "profit" i.e. turnover less expenses. So, comared to a non VAT reg. business, you are always going to be more expensive, or make less profit on a particular job.
[i]They are effectively living in a VAT free world because everything they buy, which they can claim is for their business is tax & VAT deductable. That includes things like the van they bought, the tools they use, the radio they listen to on the job, even if it never leaves their house! The VAT man doesn't care as long as they charge us customers VAT on our bills. It costs them nothing to charge us and they can then claim the VAT back on all their related expenses, even if some of them are not true expenses!!
Tax accountants will apportion things against tax & VAT like a percentage of the engineer's mortgage, council tax, electricity bills, phone bills etc should the engineer work from home for example. We started our business from home around 20-years ago and saved a fortune, so anyone that says using an accountant is not a form of saving is clearly mistaken or being VAT registered is a cost rather than a saving unless they are selling goods, is completely wrong. Goods & services attract VAT and a HETAS engineer is clearly selling services[/i].
Please refer to my comment on credibility
2. The business has an income greater than £77,000. (Current UK VAT registration threshold.
If they do not sell goods or services over £77k per year, they don't need to charge VAT. They all do, so they must have chosen to charge it (Because it suits them to do so) or been forced to charge it because they are minted. Hmm.....
Sour grapes, your dead right and I am assuming most people that read this thread will be feeling the same! I am guessing most of us are not earning more than £77k per year with or without holidays or sick pay.
You surely do understand that £77K turnover has no real bearing on income
As it happens, I did not request a quote on a Sunday. This is when I was told he could come round, so perhaps he is busy earning £400 a day Monday to Saturday and fits his quotes in between going to church and his Sunday lunch!! If he wants to give up his Sunday to do the free quotes, that's up to him, but then I guess he is keeping the other days free to earn lots of money!
Monday - Saturday = 6 jobs. I am surprised he can do 6 surveys between ofering thanks to his deity and supping his ale on a Sunday.
A messy wood burner could work out cheaper to heat the house, given that we are all at the mercy of the utility companies. Buying your own wood allows you to shop around and accumulate enough wood for the following winter. Heating your house for £200 in timber compared to £700 in gas makes a lot of sense to me, ]
Have you actually had a wood burner, and paid for a years timber?
Anyway, I do like an argument, and I do believe that HETAS guys are taking advantage. But all your points are levelled regularly at most trades, and most are spurious. You admit you would charge more of you could get away with it, and a few years ago the papers were full of stories about accountants and lawyers giving up their careers to retrain as a plumber. £70K - £100K were regularly mentioned, and I am sure there were a few acheiving that. But the press were guilty of extrapulating a specific job earnings into an annual wage, which, I am afraid, you are guilty of.
An accuntant will only ensure that you claim the allowable expenses. And until the average plumber recieves a tax rebate every year, I won't accept that an accountant saves money, merely ensures that you don't pay to much. When you get into the stratospheric heights of ebay etc, then you may have an argument. But not the average Joe.
Not if they quote the price plus VAT, they are charging the same amount for their time as other non-VAT registered engineers. Okay their overall fee might be more expensive to the customer and they might not win the business based purely on price, but any salesman will tell you, price is only one small part of selling your product or services. Quality should play a big part too and if the other engineer is not charging VAT, it means his turnover is less than £77k a year and clearly isn't doing the business! Why is that when we know there is a shortage of HETAS engineers. Perhaps he is falling down on quality and people are recommending others to avoid him!
Furthermore, the amount HETAS engineers are charging anyway, if a VAT registered HETAS engineer is losing deals based on price because they must add VAT, then they need to charge less to ensure they win the business!!
If you read my previous posts, you will see that I have questioned business running costs for a HETAS engineer that works from home, and every one I have dealt with does. If they haven't got a shop to pay for, the major expense I can see is their van and this is tax deductible at 20% and given that they should be high rate tax payers, they should be deducting 40% not 20%! Nearly half their running costs are tax deductible!
Of that 77k income or more, only a small percentage will be lost to operating costs and the rest is gross salary.
When operating costs are small when compared to the overall income, it is easier to estimate a salary.
Why not. Why should the fact that this job role does not offer paid holiday or sick pay mean that the engineer cannot work for 52-weeks a year. Some people never get sick and many will choose to work every week without a holiday. You can't compare being self employed against employed when is suits and not when it doesn't. The average wage in the UK is said to be £26,871. Many of these people have holiday pay & sick pay, so if the engineer want that lifestyle and is willing to earn less, it's a free world, well not if you are trying to have a stove installed it's not!
One came out on Sunday and the other on a Monday evening around 6:00pm (Presumably on his way home) and were both only here for 30-minutes! These quotes are being fitted in here and there so as to not impact the main work days. I still believe they are putting in 5 or 6-days of work at £400 a day.
You don't need a rebate to say you are saving money! A good accountant will look at all your costs and ensure that every tiny cost will be factored against your income. He will recommend that the wife becomes part of the business for tax purposes even if she does nothing or very little, because she is not using her full tax entitlement, the 18-year old daughter will be brought in too, again even if she does nothing but answer the phone a few times a month.
The end result will be that instead of paying £20k a year in tax, the engineer only pays £16k. That is a £4k saving and not a rebate in sight!
HETAS engineer - Great work if you can get it!
Anyone that is out-debated and proved wrong, always resorts to verbal abuse in the end.
Thank you for proving this point so eloquently!
Thank you for proving this point so eloquently!
M
mysteryman
The suggestion that 'he just pops in on his way home' is rubbish. Surveying, pricing, costing, and quoting for work is part of that work. If you get three, four, or five people in to quote for a job, that time has to be paid for somehow. If you want someone 'just to sign the job off' you are expecting him to take on a huge responsibility for work he has not done. The skill, knowledge and experience required are not free of charge. I was self-employed for many years, and I kept away from people who thought they knew best. I avoided those who wanted it done more cheaply for cash; they are the sort who will be most trouble before, during, and after the job.
Do your own thing if you wish, but carry the rsponsibility yourself - and stop moaning.
Get a professional if you wish - and be prepared to pay the price.
Do your own thing if you wish, but carry the rsponsibility yourself - and stop moaning.
Get a professional if you wish - and be prepared to pay the price.
For the record, I have received 3-quotes, picked the man I liked based on his customer service not his price (He was actually £50 more expensive), didn't haggle with him or offer him cash and he is booked in to fit the fire on the 18th of December.
All above board, but still a lot of money for what he is saying is a half day job! (Around £500 for labour, the top rain cowl, flue pipe, sump adapter and a small piece of fire board - Parts will be around £160 and labour about £340)
Hopefully it will be lovely and certainly happy to have it installed this year.
All above board, but still a lot of money for what he is saying is a half day job! (Around £500 for labour, the top rain cowl, flue pipe, sump adapter and a small piece of fire board - Parts will be around £160 and labour about £340)
Hopefully it will be lovely and certainly happy to have it installed this year.
Hi, we are HETAS installers, please don't tar us all with the same brush.
Yes you can fit a stove without the need for a liner, with a registry plate, with adequate sweeping access, after the flue has passed an integrity test. Not sure why installers would lie about this.
The registry plate must have access hatches in place to be able to remove soot from on top of it. As HETAS installers, we choose not to install this way, not out of greed, simply because, in our opinion, concerning this type of installation, soot falls from the chimney and rests on top of the plate.
Soot being flammable, if the appliance is not maintained or swept (also as Chimney Sweeps, we can safely say, they are not always swept or maintained!) This type of installation can cause a fire hazard, however, it is within the regs! It is simply our choice not to install this way. Not to mention that a tested flue is only valid on they day of the test, the integrity can fail at anytime causing a fatality/carbon monoxide death.
In terms of liner, you can get decent liner online. We install with the best quality liner that has a temperature rating of T600, most other liners are T400 or T450. Again it is our choice to use what we believe is the best available liner. We have been on the receiving end of installing liners that customers have bought, that have unraveled/torn or disintegrated on installation day on site, losing us a days labor. So we only install a liner we can trust.
Signing off an installation is a self certification system. It is there to certify your own work. If you want the installation installed by someone who is unregistered, and wanted it signed off, you would need that new flue certified safe via an integrity test by someone registered/certified. We charge £150 for this, as it is a two man roof job that takes a good few hours. You could then contact your local authority buildings control Dept and they might sign it off for you (they could charge you up to £500 for the privilege). If the solid fuel appliance installation is not signed off, your house insurance will not pay out in the event of fire/CO illness/death.
We do not put a mark up on the products we supply, but we do place a labor charge of £450 to cover 1 installer + 1 labourer. We have never completed an installation within three hours (if only), the quickest has been six hours. We pride ourselves in installing quality products properly, within regulations, safely. The choice to pay for this service for which we have a passion for, train for, put our name to, and guarantee, lies with the customer. This is as frank as I can be!
Yes you can fit a stove without the need for a liner, with a registry plate, with adequate sweeping access, after the flue has passed an integrity test. Not sure why installers would lie about this.
The registry plate must have access hatches in place to be able to remove soot from on top of it. As HETAS installers, we choose not to install this way, not out of greed, simply because, in our opinion, concerning this type of installation, soot falls from the chimney and rests on top of the plate.
Soot being flammable, if the appliance is not maintained or swept (also as Chimney Sweeps, we can safely say, they are not always swept or maintained!) This type of installation can cause a fire hazard, however, it is within the regs! It is simply our choice not to install this way. Not to mention that a tested flue is only valid on they day of the test, the integrity can fail at anytime causing a fatality/carbon monoxide death.
In terms of liner, you can get decent liner online. We install with the best quality liner that has a temperature rating of T600, most other liners are T400 or T450. Again it is our choice to use what we believe is the best available liner. We have been on the receiving end of installing liners that customers have bought, that have unraveled/torn or disintegrated on installation day on site, losing us a days labor. So we only install a liner we can trust.
Signing off an installation is a self certification system. It is there to certify your own work. If you want the installation installed by someone who is unregistered, and wanted it signed off, you would need that new flue certified safe via an integrity test by someone registered/certified. We charge £150 for this, as it is a two man roof job that takes a good few hours. You could then contact your local authority buildings control Dept and they might sign it off for you (they could charge you up to £500 for the privilege). If the solid fuel appliance installation is not signed off, your house insurance will not pay out in the event of fire/CO illness/death.
We do not put a mark up on the products we supply, but we do place a labor charge of £450 to cover 1 installer + 1 labourer. We have never completed an installation within three hours (if only), the quickest has been six hours. We pride ourselves in installing quality products properly, within regulations, safely. The choice to pay for this service for which we have a passion for, train for, put our name to, and guarantee, lies with the customer. This is as frank as I can be!
This makes sense seren1. We are being fitted with a sump adapter like the one in the link below to change the 9-inch diameter of the clay chimney flue down to the 5-inch flue from the stove. The HETAS engineer has said that sweeping the chimney should not present a problem and in the unlikely event that it is difficult, the flue up from the stove will be telescopic and easily removed. He did say though that removing the flue from the stove and reconnecting it has to be done by a HETAS engineer as you would be breaking a sealed system, but as he also sweep chimneys, it would not be a problem for him to do.
http://www.fireplaceproducts.co.uk/standard-rain-caps-cowls/sump-adaptor/
I have had quotes from chimney sweepers and most have quoted me £50 to £59 to do the job. The HETAS engineer installing our stove only charges £50, so he is one of the cheaper sweepers as well! (Oh that rimes!)
If soot falls down the chimney onto the edge of the sump adapter, it should also fall down the flue pipe into the stove, given the funnel like shape of the sump adapter, but I take your point with flat register plates.
This is the underside of our fireplace: http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww195/Steamerpoint/PB081537.jpg
As you can see the clay flue pipe terminates flush with the concrete and the clay pipe is only 9-inches in diameter. There is no room for a register plate with access holes too, so our only choice is a lined chimney or unlined with a sump adapter. (Ignore the foam bung wrapped in black plastic bags in the middle, this will come out before the stove is installed!!)
£450 for two guys on a day's job does not sound excessive. £450 for one installer on a days job, does!
For that reason you are fair to say: "Don't tar us all with the same brush"
Just 3-more weeks to go. Hardwood already being stored in the log-store. Can't wait
That's great, sounds like your man is the real deal, not like so many HETAS cowboys that we come across. We would charge £45 to sweep this type of installation.
Being from a Chimney sweeping background is definitely an advantage when it comes to installing, you tend to be more thorough.
There is a myth with the general public in our area that you can shove a stove in a recess, have a 1meter length of vit. coming off the top and you''ve got an instant installation, it's insane.
We call it the magic meter.
Nice to hear there are people knowledgeable about solid fuel. Hope you have your fire for Christmas.
Being from a Chimney sweeping background is definitely an advantage when it comes to installing, you tend to be more thorough.
There is a myth with the general public in our area that you can shove a stove in a recess, have a 1meter length of vit. coming off the top and you''ve got an instant installation, it's insane.
We call it the magic meter.
Nice to hear there are people knowledgeable about solid fuel. Hope you have your fire for Christmas.
One of the HETAS installers that came round a month ago still hadn't given me a quote. I wasn't going to chase him as I had already decided who to go with (Based on customer service I had received), but on Monday I decided to chase him, if nothing else but to get him to do something and finish the quote. (I had come home specially to let him see what needed doing, so he could at least work things out and email me back)
The work that he was quoting for was to bring a matt black flue pipe and a register plate and connecting my stove to my chimney after he has tested the chimney is safe. He is bringing a rain cowl and after removing the chimney cap, is fitting the rain cowl. Then he will test that the fire burns okay and will issue a certificate.
The only difference between both quotes is that this guy will use a register plate and the installer I intend to use will be using a funnel shaped sump adapter.
Quote I have already booked will cost me £495 including parts and labour.
The quote just come in today for the same job is £645!!
Both are registered HETAS installers and are both on the HETAS website and yet they differ by £150 for a virtually identical job.
That difference is the labour costs. One is happy to work for £350 and the other installer wants £500. 30% more!!!
The installer that is doing our job is connecting another fire up in the afternoon after he has sorted us out and has said that it is a half day job.
If this is true, he is doing well at £700 a day for his time, but what does that say about the other installer that is charging £1000 a day!
If he can stay busy Monday to Friday (And I think they are all fully booked because I have to wait a month to get booked in) one can earn up to £15,400 in a month and the other can earn £22,000. Again great money.
Even if there are two of them on the job, the potential is certainly there for these guys to earn well.
The work that he was quoting for was to bring a matt black flue pipe and a register plate and connecting my stove to my chimney after he has tested the chimney is safe. He is bringing a rain cowl and after removing the chimney cap, is fitting the rain cowl. Then he will test that the fire burns okay and will issue a certificate.
The only difference between both quotes is that this guy will use a register plate and the installer I intend to use will be using a funnel shaped sump adapter.
Quote I have already booked will cost me £495 including parts and labour.
The quote just come in today for the same job is £645!!
Both are registered HETAS installers and are both on the HETAS website and yet they differ by £150 for a virtually identical job.
That difference is the labour costs. One is happy to work for £350 and the other installer wants £500. 30% more!!!
The installer that is doing our job is connecting another fire up in the afternoon after he has sorted us out and has said that it is a half day job.
If this is true, he is doing well at £700 a day for his time, but what does that say about the other installer that is charging £1000 a day!
If he can stay busy Monday to Friday (And I think they are all fully booked because I have to wait a month to get booked in) one can earn up to £15,400 in a month and the other can earn £22,000. Again great money.
Even if there are two of them on the job, the potential is certainly there for these guys to earn well.
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