Celotex type boards vs rock wool for cavity wall

[SimonH2]

And just out of interest if you are so disinterested you feel the need to tell us all, why not make no comment at all.

I said disinterested, not uninterested. Noseall made a stupid reply to a realistic statement. Sorry, but he comes across as an idiot and bodger - making a statement that implies he believes that it's not possible to cut Celotex to fit and put food on the table.

Yes, we'd all like to be able to dictate better prices - it doesn't work like that, so get over it. If what you are doing now has an excess of supply over demand and you don't want to work for the rate that the market has settled on, then find something else to do. Don't just whine about some form of "entitlement" to better pay.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

The point is, you can you either product, its just that one is easier to use and install and provides less problems. Ironically this is the cheaper product as well, so its not a case of pricing low, and doing a s***te job, its that some people prefer one over the other. The fact is that given the backing block etc. 9 times out of 10 they both meet building regulations. So it doesn't matter.

I think the point here is that the tradesman should price the job with the difficulty of the job in mind, and should inform the client/architect of the pitfalls of using Celotex, if it is going to cost more to install to an acceptable standard, with no discernible benefits. At this point, the client will be able to make an informed decision on whether to use rockwool or Celotex.

No doubt all you plumbers

I don't think SimonH2 is a plumber...

The point noseall is making is to add that site bricklaying prices are dictated to you by the site foreman

This depends on whether you are running your own projects or sub contracting to a main contractor. If you are working on a site being dictated to by others then you might not have much choice other than to bodge, but that doesn't mean Tony's statement is unreasonable.

And just out of interest if you are so disinterested you feel the need to tell us all, why not make no comment at all.

Disinterested means impartial, not uninterested...

 

[limerockconstruction]

Well.....you can both be pedantic about my grasp of the English language, it doesn't bother me too much!

But nosealls comment was specific to site bricklaying so all of your points are moot about pricing, as the rates are usually given to you on walking on to site. There is no room for negotiation on price or product specification. Expectations of bricklayers on a building site are not equivalent to the rates of pay they return. Domestic building is another game altogether, and there should be a lot more tolerance within these prices weather your fitting PIR or full fill.

Ronny, you even allude to this....but please be assured, I don't agree with bodging.

Also, to add, that some of the more experienced guys I know can't just stop and get another trade because rates are being driven down, after 30 years on the trowel they aren't conditioned to do much else. So Simon's statement is not fair and practical.

 

[stuart45]

Full fill insulation isn't a bodge job, it's just another method of achieving the U value for the wall as is partial fill or solid wall construction.
Being able to construct the outer skin of a cavity wall first is actually better for setting out the facework.

 

[SimonH2]

Also, to add, that some of the more experienced guys I know can't just stop and get another trade because rates are being driven down, after 30 years on the trowel they aren't conditioned to do much else. So Simon's statement is not fair and practical.

Some do it, others whine about it. Few people cannot change professions mid life. Plenty are either afraid of the change (and I'll admit, I not a great one for embracing change) or not prepared to put the effort in.

And yes, I do know what it's like running your own business.

 

[noseall]

rigid boards have to be carefully fitted, and sometimes the builders just don't have the skill.

I suggest you do a bit of recession site bricklaying before making a ridiculous comment like that again.

I personally have never done site bricklaying so have never suffered what a lot of my friends have encountered which is lean times on site. This can mean grafting with your head down for 8 hours for as little as £40 per day, with prices so tight that you don't have time to sneeze let alone cut celotex with a fine toothed saw.

I am well versed in quoting and cutting celotex and have thankfully never had prices set for me like on sites, where at one time agents were picking and choosing their gangs whilst turning loads away.

Simon h2 - you are a clueless twit who is bereft of building knowledge whether that be site work or private. You stick to your keyboard bud and keep your nail varnish pristine.

 

[tony1851]

rigid boards have to be carefully fitted, and sometimes the builders just don't have the skill.

I suggest you do a bit of recession site bricklaying before making a ridiculous comment like that again.

noseall;
Why are you hammering on about this? The original comment I made was a valid one, which was that, by common consent, full-fill insulation is easier to fit than the board.

The corollary of this is that it takes more care, and therefore probably more time, and - dare I say it? - skill, to fit the boards properly.

I fail to see why your response went off on a tangent concerning wages and employment matters.

Chill out a bit.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Simon h2 - you are a clueless twit who is bereft of building knowledge whether that be site work or private. You stick to your keyboard bud and keep your nail varnish pristine.

There's only one way to settle this...fight!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Unskilled builders do the full fill, quote for Celotex and then fit full fill, leave the partial fill to the skilled brickys.

 

[noseall]

Why are you hammering on about this? The original comment I made was a valid one, which was that, by common consent, full-fill insulation is easier to fit than the board.

Sorry tony, i was trying to get the message across to Simon h2O.

He somehow interpreted my dig at you with a rant about me being a cowboy which was a bit odd. He then went on to say why don't brickies just throw in the towel and do summat else if prices are tight. A bit naive me thinks.

Partial fill is a faff at best. I would say having the time and patience would be more accurate rather than "skill". It is a bit of an insult to suggest seasoned tradesmen lack the skill to cut a few poxy celotex boards.

 

[SimonH2]

Simon h2 - you are a clueless twit who is bereft of building knowledge whether that be site work or private. You stick to your keyboard bud and keep your nail varnish pristine.

There's only one way to settle this...fight!

Nah, he's entitled to his opinion no matter abusive he gets or what false information he gives. I'll just leave it for others to make their own minds up.

 

[lostinfens]

Can I just mention in this fractious exchange that as a brickie of 40yrs, I still find fitting rockwool a challenge!