Gas, have the rules changed?

[richardrich79]

I was in our local DIY shed last night and noticed they sell a 'Gas Fire Fitting kit', basically a metre of small bore copper, a tap, ptfe for £19.99.
I asked the kid on the till who seemed to think it was all you needed to go with the fires they sell.
No mention about the risk or legality of diy gas work the attitude seems to be if it wasn't ok to diy they wouldn't be selling it as only a diy'er would need to but the kit.
Have I missed something?

 

[rjm2k]

You mean this?

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/plumbing...Fire-Installation-Kit-11477815?skuId=11988522

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

No the rules haven't changed.

 

[richardrich79]

Yes that's the kit, Christ it's bloody frightening.

 

[richardrich79]

So if any neighbour diy's their own gas fire with one of these kits and blows the street sky-high (I live in a terrace) can I sue B&Q?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I don't really understand what you're saying. Anyone can buy the parts for gas works from anywhere for any gas work and fit them illegally.

 

[OwainDIYer]

Anyone can fit his own gas fire in his own house (as long as he's not a landlord) legally, as long as he is competent, and makes any necessary application to Building Control for the installation of a heating appliance under Part L.

Admittedly I'd be worried about the competence of anyone spending £20 in B&Q when the bits cost about half that from BES.

 

[richardrich79]

I guess what got me is the fact that the 'kit' is so obviously aimed at mr average punter with no real regard to the safety side of things. Fair enough on their website they say it must be fitted by gas safe engineer and yes building control should 'control' installations but let's face it the type of person who buys this kit won't tell BC or pay to get get a proper installation carried out.

 

[rjm2k]

It does say knowledge level "advanced"

 

[geraldthehamster]

Anyone can fit his own gas fire in his own house (as long as he's not a landlord) legally, as long as he is competent, and makes any necessary application to Building Control for the installation of a heating appliance under Part L.

Admittedly I'd be worried about the competence of anyone spending £20 in B&Q when the bits cost about half that from BES.

"Ccompetent person" in the building regulations sense of the term means a member of the relevant "competent persons scheme" - in this case, the Gas Safe register. That's my understanding, anyway.

Cheers
Richard

 

[SimonH2]

From http://www.hse.gov.uk/involvement/competentperson.htm

A competent person is someone who has sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities that allow them to assist you properly.

Which more or less fits with other descriptions I've had in the past - essentially someone with sufficient training and experience for the task in hand. It does NOT automatically mean someone with a specific qualification or membership.

I'm inclined to agree with the OP, it's a slightly (well, more than slightly) worrying thought that sheds are now selling "DIY kits" to fit gas fires. The sort of person most likely to buy one of these kits is not (IMO) likely to be the sort of person who will be too bothered about the technicalities, nor be the sort of person with "top quality" plumbing skills.

I also note that under "Additional Info" it makes the incorrect statement : It is illegal for non-GasSafe registered installers to carry out gas work in the UK so at least they have made some attempt to dissuade people from BIYing it. No idea if any such warnings are in-store or on the package.

While they also sell lots of other stuff that can be used/installed by people without the required skills/knowledge - with gas there's scope for causing significantly more damage/injury.

 

[richardrich79]

No idea if any such warnings are in-store or on the package.

Not in my local 'shed', however I was given a "useful tip" to rest for leaks with a bit of soapy water

 

[geraldthehamster]

From http://www.hse.gov.uk/involvement/competentperson.htm

A competent person is someone who has sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities that allow them to assist you properly.

Which more or less fits with other descriptions I've had in the past - essentially someone with sufficient training and experience for the task in hand. It does NOT automatically mean someone with a specific qualification or membership.

What you have there is a general statement about health and safety at work. Nothing to do with "competent persons" schemes. To sign off gas and electrical work you need to belong to an accredited competent persons scheme.

Cheers
Richard

 

[roberta1000]

Nothing to do with "competent persons" schemes. To sign off gas and electrical work you need to belong to an accredited competent persons scheme.

But much gas and electrical work doesn't need to be 'signed off' or notified in any way. For such work you only legally need (as Simonh2 has pointed out) to be competent in the dictionary sense of the word provided that you are not doing the work for reward.
Being a member of one of the certified schemes is in theory an indication of competence but it isn't necessary. Arguably being a member of such a scheme isn't even a measure of competence.

 

[geraldthehamster]

[quote="robertw63";p="2941115
But much gas and electrical work doesn't need to be 'signed off' or notified in any way. For such work you only legally need (as Simonh2 has pointed out) to be competent in the dictionary sense of the word provided that you are not doing the work for reward.
Being a member of one of the certified schemes is in theory an indication of competence but it isn't necessary. Arguably being a member of such a scheme isn't even a measure of competence.[/quote]

The question was about a "gas fire fitting kit".

http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/advice/gas_safety_in_the_home/building_regs_certificates.aspx

"The Building Regulations in England and Wales make it a legal requirement for the appropriate Local Authority (LA) to be informed about the installation of a heat producing gas appliance e.g. boiler or fire.

Only a Gas Safe registered engineer can fit a new gas appliance. Once a gas appliance has been installed it can only be notified by a Gas Safe registered engineer."

Cheers
Richard