LED Question

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Hiya,

Considering led lights, can people let me know best practices regarding led transformers, is it 1 transformer per led light or can a number of led lights be used with 1 transformer (upto its wattage).

Just working out costings for materials.

ta
 
You do not say what sort of LED light you are considering? Any clues?

In general i try and install lights that include the driver (aka COB, DOB lights) then its only the 230v feed to the light that you need to concern yourself with.

If you are going for other types of light ( ie ELV supply) then you could have one driver per light (expensive on driver count) or one driver for several lights.
The number of drivers will depend on what load each light is, and the capability of the driver(s)
The type of driver will depend on if the lights require a constant CURRENT or constant VOLTAGE supply.

So, no simple answer then, and lots of options. Much depends on the answer to my opening sentence!
 
You do not say what sort of LED light you are considering? Any clues?

In general i try and install lights that include the driver (aka COB, DOB lights) then its only the 230v feed to the light that you need to concern yourself with.

If you are going for other types of light ( ie ELV supply) then you could have one driver per light (expensive on driver count) or one driver for several lights.
The number of drivers will depend on what load each light is, and the capability of the driver(s)
The type of driver will depend on if the lights require a constant CURRENT or constant VOLTAGE supply.

So, no simple answer then, and lots of options. Much depends on the answer to my opening sentence!


Standard GU10 (non dimm), 2.5w

http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-fixed...ck/8153f#product_additional_details_container
 
They are 240V mains LED downlights. So no driver/transformer is necessary.

And the description (from your link) actually says this :rolleyes:
 
There has to be some device to control the current on any LED. This may be built into a package with the LED or it may be separate. So each LED is around 3 volt and a set current depending on the type, 320 mA is common, so with DC the limit is 75 volt before it needs protection so if a 0 ~ 60 volt power supply is used then around 20 LED's could be powered from the same power supply.

However often we use a two stage system with a power supply dropping the voltage from 230 Vac to 12 Vdc then a second device powering lots of three LED's with the correct current. This latter stage could be a complex PWM chip or a simple resistor, as a result packages of LED's can vary vastly on efficiency from around 40 lumen per watt to 100 lumen per watt.

Using LED's we really have two ways to use them, to light a room or decorate a room. Using the three colours on strips is great decoration but not really any good to light the room sometimes the lumen per watt on the decorative LED's can be down to 20 lumen per watt.

Although you can get LED's and drivers (in theroy a driver controls current) in extra low voltage packages, it becomes complex working out what you have and getting replacements, in general low voltage (230 Vac) are better as far easier to replace and upgrade one has not got to look for some special device which matches what you already have.

Larger LED units tend to have a better lumen per watt, As a 300mm square lamp or as a replacement for a fluorescent tube likely will be 100 lumen per watt, smaller spot lights more like 60 to 80 lumen per watt, however even at 60 lumen per watt that is far better than tungsten so more down to what looks nice than how many lumen per watt. For my caravan I can buy 50mm spot lamps rated 10 ~ 36 volt at 100 lumen per watt but each lamp is expensive I can get 3 house types lamps for the price of one caravan type so I am personally satisfied with 60 to 80 lumen per watt as they cost less to buy in the first place.

So in real terms the lumen is only to tell you how many lights are required and as long as you use all 230 volt types swapping for larger or smaller is easy. So to answer question personally I would not buy any transformers or drivers or power supplies I would buy lamps with them all built into the lamp. Up to around 1000 lumen per lamp the LED works well, as you exceed 1000 lumen per lamp the LED becomes very expensive. I will give my kitchen as an example, a 5 foot fluorescent tube with HF ballast costs around £35 with around 5400 lumen output, to get that with LED need two tubes at £18 each and that's not including the fitting to get 4800 lumen and when the fluorescent fails it costs £4 each for new tube when LED fails it costs £18 each for new tubes. So using large LED lamps does not work out.

However with 50mm spots the 8W cold cathode which is really a fluorescent tube costs more than the 8W LED and gives out half of the light. And the folded tube used in CFL are also short lived and no where near as good as the LED version. And to my mind the 5 foot fluorescent tube does not really look that good lighting a room even if it is cheap. Comparing 300mm surface mounted LED lamps to the old 2D fluorescent I think they are about equal to each other it is personal preference.

Other than special locations like maybe a bathroom I would not fit extra low voltage (12 volt) lights. Simply not worth the hassle and expensive.
 
Hiya,

Considering led lights, can people let me know best practices regarding led transformers, is it 1 transformer per led light or can a number of led lights be used with 1 transformer (upto its wattage).

Just working out costings for materials.

ta

LEDs do not run off transformers, they run off LED drivers or power supplies. (Transformers supply AC, LEDs require DC).

They use so little power that it makes no sense to use one supply per lamp. The only exception is if you use 240v LEDs which have the supply built in.
 
Looked at link seem to have a good output per watt however you can't angle the lamp. 220 lumen in 1950 mm² look at a square lamp 330 mm and that has 55 times the area but only 10 times the output so it gives out less concentrated light which works far better unless you bounce the light off a white surface. Using spot lamps as spot lamps to light the work surface is good but to do that you need to angle the lamp so it shines on the work surface. Otherwise the room looks like a planetarium.
 
Hiya,

Considering led lights, can people let me know best practices regarding led transformers, is it 1 transformer per led light or can a number of led lights be used with 1 transformer (upto its wattage).

Just working out costings for materials.

ta

LEDs do not run off transformers, they run off LED drivers or power supplies. (Transformers supply AC, LEDs require DC).

They use so little power that it makes no sense to use one supply per lamp. The only exception is if you use 240v LEDs which have the supply built in.
The word driver describes a current controlled device, however the lighting industry seems to go out of there way to miss label and often simple 12 volt regulated power supplies are also called drivers by manufacturers because designed to supply a LED lamp, it is the same with transformer and electronic transformer the latter is a HF AC power supply but not really a simple transformer but in some cases does the same job, again we have ballast and electronic ballast they latter is not really a ballast. When the lamp has a built in driver then there is no reason that the supply to that driver has to be DC, it can be AC or DC. There is no reason why I should not get 12 volt AC LED MR16 compatible units to run from my toroidal transformer. However if I had a pulse width modulated electronic transformer then likely there will be spikes which could destroy the LED and the device will likely have a minimum output.

It is the problem having to carefully read the spec and ensure matching why I and many others say go for low voltage 230 Vac units so that there is no matching problem they are simply plug and play.
 
Thanks for all comments.

I just want to compare all scenarios, if i go for LED's i will stick to 240v only as they are easier to install rather then messing around with drivers/transformers.

Thinking of installing fire rated ones in a loft room.
 
You don't say type of room being used in. 230 volt is best route but next is size of unit. A lamp like this
ae235
needs only a hole for cable so no problem with fire rating, it has a large surface area so can light direct easy to fit as only one or two required and in general are better than spot lamps.
 
I don't want to be negative.

Lets have a think about the loft conversion.

Does the room have a pitched roof?
Is the space between the ceiling joists stuffed with Celotex, or other thermal insulation material?
If so, that material is what is keeping the room warm. To put downlights in there you would need to carve out an area all round the lights and above them so they do not fry. This will completely scrogg the thermal rating of the room (it will be rejected by Building Control if the space has not been passed by them yet).

Further, it will create cold spots round each light where condensation will collect and drip onto whoever/whatever is underneath.
 
I don't want to be negative.

Lets have a think about the loft conversion.

Does the room have a pitched roof?
Is the space between the ceiling joists stuffed with Celotex, or other thermal insulation material?
If so, that material is what is keeping the room warm. To put downlights in there you would need to carve out an area all round the lights and above them so they do not fry. This will completely scrogg the thermal rating of the room (it will be rejected by Building Control if the space has not been passed by them yet).

Further, it will create cold spots round each light where condensation will collect and drip onto whoever/whatever is underneath.

Loft to be done under full build reg with 100m roof insulation and 50m air gap
1 room is dormer, 1 room is pitched roof.
lights to be firerated.
 
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