Correct 12v transformer for mix of LED spotlights and LED striplights

[winston1]

That supply looks good (but please don't call it a transformer, it isn't). The spots look OK too as they can run on DC. Often the stickiness on strips leaves a bit to be desired but additional superglue should solve that. Just make sure you get it in the right position first time.

 

[JohnW2]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but using 230v outdoors requires stricter rules when it comes to how and where it can be laid?

Whilst common sense certainly says that, in general the regulations make surprisingly little distinction between wiring for 230V and 12V.

Part of my cable runs will be laid on concrete, albeit within conduit and built in behind a bench so completely out of reach. My assumption was that having 12v running above ground in this way would probably be ok, whereas having 230v running above ground in this way probably wasn't a good idea, and probably wouldn't get past building regs.

What sort of conduit are you talking about? If it were steel, and earthed, that would be acceptable for 230V.

A lot of the regulations require common sense in their interpretation - for example in terms of deciding whether a cable is provided with "adequate protection against mechanical damage". Also, of course, unless it were part of a larger project, the work you propose would not be 'notifiable', so it would be down to you to decide what was acceptable. All that the Building Regs, per se, require is that the work be done 'safely' (in such a way as to not represent a danger to persons or property), without saying anything specific.

Also, the armoured cable I hear is quite difficult to work when it comes to connecting it to junction boxes etc. I may be wrong though so open to feedback on that!

Working with SWA certainly requires the acquisition of some skills, so is best avoided by the inexperienced.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SFK]

JohnW2,
Your comment that "the regulations make surprisingly little distinction between wiring for 230V and 12V" worries me.
I had my 240V outside sockets installed by an electrician so that i had proper connection to my Distribution Board, with correct RCB, correctly rated armored cable and proper documented testing / notification.
But I installed my 12V lighting in my Garden myself believing that I do not need to have it installed by an electrician or have documented testing / notification.
Reading your comment, should I have had formal documented testing / notification for my garden based 12V system?
sfk

 

[JohnW2]

But I installed my 12V lighting in my Garden myself believing that I do not need to have it installed by an electrician or have documented testing / notification. Reading your comment, should I have had formal documented testing / notification for my garden based 12V system?

As I said/implied, if it was run off an existing circuit, there would (in England - Wales is different) have been no requirement for notification, even if it had been a 230V system.

Any electrical work, even if not notifiable, should be tested and documented, and I'm not convinced that that theoretically ceases to be the case with 12V. However, IMO common sense should prevail when one is talking about 12V.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SFK]

JohnW2,
I think I found it: "The installation of fixed equipment is within the scope of part P, even where the final connection is by a 13A plug and socket. However work is notifiable only if it involves fixed wiring and the installation of a new circuit or the extension of a circuit in a kitchen or special location [such as a garden] or associated with a special installation".
So I read this as per Para 3© of Schedule 2B which exempts "pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections" means that in the garden I am okay installing myself a 12V Power Supply that is pre-fabricated with a plug 12V Power supply, but in the Garden I cannot use a 12V Power Supply that I need to put a plug on.
sfk

 

[SFK]

John, sorry - our message crossed at same time.

Thank you for you comments, and yes (I believe) that my 12V supply is properly tested and secure. I and feel that I am qualified to do that 12V testing (but of course as soon as I say that it will now fail in a manner in which I did not test). :<
But it seems that I should have had this installed within the scope of part P as I used a Power Supply needing a Plug to be attached. As I in no way wish to be in breach of this I will have a look for a pre-fabricated power supply to be on correct side of regulations. It looks as if the one Naylor suggested meets the pre-fabricated requirements: http://www.exteriorlightsuk.co.uk/product/LED-Driver-60w-12v-IP65
Thank you for bringing this to my attention, it is good to know,
sfk

 

[JohnW2]

JohnW2, I think I found it: "The installation of fixed equipment is within the scope of part P, even where the final connection is by a 13A plug and socket. however work is notifiable only if it involves fixed wiring and the installation of a new circuit or the extension of a circuit in a kitchen or special location or associated with a special installation [such as a garden]" .

That's a bit out of date (in England). "Extension of a circuit in a kitchen" is no longer notifiable.

So I think that as per Para 3© of Schedule 2B which exempts "pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections" means that if I used a pre-fabricated with plug 12V Power supply I am okay installing it myself. But I cannot use a 12V Power Supply that I need to put a plug on myself.

Again, that is out-of-date. Scedule 2B no longer exists. As I said, any sort of extending of an existing circuit anywhere (including in a garden) other than within certain 'zones' in a bathroom is now non-notifiable (in England).

Whether it is "okay for you to install something (anything) yourself" depends entirely whether you are sufficiently competent, knowledgeable and well equipped to do so safely and 'properly'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SFK]

John.
Ah the wonders of Google... sorry to be posting out of date references.
Okay that is good then that I have not been in breach of any regulations after ensuring that I have met them everywhere else.

And yes I completely agree with your comment, which I would change to "Whether it is okay for you to do anything yourself depends entirely whether you are sufficiently competent, knowledgeable and well equipped to do so safely and properly" so that it encompass most things.
Thx again, sfk

 

[Naylor87]

Hi All,

Thanks for the continued advice, greatly appreciated. I've got as far as purchasing the LED spotlights now, but have just spotted something that I'd like clarifying if possible.

Looking at going for these for two of the spotlights (http://www.exteriorlightsuk.co.uk/product/mr16-led-5w-warm-white-3000-kelvin-30-degree) but then hit this comment right at the bottom of the page -

"Use as an alternative to MR16 halogen lamp: requires power from a magnetic transformer ( Toroidal not electronic)."

This has thrown me a bit, as the driver I originally specified does not state whether it's magnetic (Toroidal) or electronic - http://www.exteriorlightsuk.co.uk/product/LED-Driver-60w-12v-IP65

In comparison, this one from the same site does state that it's magnetic (toroidal), but is not appropriate due to it being AC - http://www.exteriorlightsuk.co.uk/product/60va-surface-IP66-black-12v-ac-transformer

I think the answer to this is to get in touch with the site selling the LED driver I want and ask whether it's magnetic or not. Before doing that though I just wanted to point it out on here in case anyone has any input on the subject.

Or maybe the real answer is actually to buy two separate transformers/drivers/power supplies after all!

 

[JohnW2]

"Use as an alternative to MR16 halogen lamp: requires power from a magnetic transformer ( Toroidal not electronic)." ... This has thrown me a bit, as the driver I originally specified does not state whether it's magnetic (Toroidal) or electronic ...

That is an 'electronic' device, not a toroidal transformer.

In comparison, this one from the same site does state that it's magnetic (toroidal), but is not appropriate due to it being AC ...

I'm a bit confused - a toroidal transformer will, by definition, have an AC output.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Naylor87]

That is an 'electronic' device, not a toroidal transformer

What I suspected, thanks for clarifying.

An AC output is not suitable for my particular use case, as I wanted to use LED ribbon lighting (which only supports DC) on the same transformer as the spotlights. It seems what I'm missing is MR16 lamps for outdoor use that support DC from an 'electronic' device. They're probably out there so perhaps I just need to expand my search a bit.

 

[JohnW2]

An AC output is not suitable for my particular use case, as I wanted to use LED ribbon lighting (which only supports DC) on the same transformer as the spotlights.

If that's what you want, then the spotlight you mentioned is obviously not suitable since, as I said, a magnetic/toroidal transformer will, by definition, have an AC output.

Kind Regards, John