Hey Amir I got in to England illegally it was worth it !!!!

[JohnD]

So tell us, what do you think the rights are, and which ones do you want to take away?

 

[Himaginn]

If you mean, can we torture foreigners, imprison them without trial, or arrest them without charge, then no, that would not be in accordance.

I think it's fairly obvious those particular rights would be extended to everyone. Let's net erect straw men.

Guess which European nation, victorious after WW2, took the leading role in framing the Human Rights?

The world has changed a lot since then. Not all of the knee-jerk reactions to WWII are so relevant or necessary today. We've had a long time to recover and rethink since then.

Has the world changed much since WW2?

So, organisations, implementations, laws, courts, etc can be dismantled when we've reached some sort of vague objective? Who defines that objective? Who decides when we've reached that point? What do we replace it with? What happens if we later realise that we still needed it?

We do imprison refugees without trial. We do deny them basic rights such as access to internet, fax machines, etc.

UK (well this government) wants to opt out of ECHR. Why?

 

[Himaginn]

Repeat post deleted.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

So, organisations, implementations, laws, courts, etc can be dismantled

Well not all of them, of course. But with the benefit of hindsight I'm sure there must be some decisions made back then which we would now consider unecessary, or 'didn't quite work as planned', or 'weren't such a good idea after all'. Not being very knowledgable about it I don't know which ones they might be, but that's why I'm on a DIY forum, not standing as an expert witness in court! :S

Who defines that objective? Who decides when we've reached that point? What do we replace it with?

I think it'd be more of an evolutionary thing, inching towards the betterment of Britons' lives (yes, at the expense of other nations if necessary), rather than a sudden 'right, we're there now!' sort of thing. And my perspective is that membership of the EU has become a less useful option to us than soverignty. But I could be convinced otherwise.

We do imprison refugees without trial.

It happens, and that's fair enough. If I just turned up on the shores of another country with no identity, I wouldn't expect them just to let me in either. I'd just have to take the risk, and I suppose detention is better than being shot at.

We do deny them basic rights such as access to internet, fax machines, etc.

I'm not sure that access to tehnology should be a fundamental right. Not blanket access, at any rate. Hmm, I'll have to think about that one.

 

[Himaginn]

We do deny them basic rights such as access to internet, fax machines, etc.

I'm not sure that access to technology should be a fundamental right. Not blanket access, at any rate. Hmm, I'll have to think about that one.

UK prisoners have solicitors/barristers etc to fight their corner for them.
Refugees have to do so alone, navigating the various regulations, agencies, etc without assistance in many cases.
How can they do so, and produce documentary evidence, communication with their families, etc without access to basic communications?

 

[Himaginn]

Who defines that objective? Who decides when we've reached that point? What do we replace it with?

I think it'd be more of an evolutionary thing, inching towards the betterment of Britons' lives (yes, at the expense of other nations if necessary), rather than a sudden 'right, we're there now!' sort of thing. And my perspective is that membership of the EU has become a less useful option to us than soverignty. But I could be convinced otherwise.

Do you think that we've put right all the cases, issues and instances of human rights transgressions in Europe and/or UK?

 

[Slogger]

So what do you think the rights are, and which ones would you deny to foreigners?

The right to life? Freedom from slavery? Go on, you tell us. You're the one who proposes that foreigners should have fewer rights. Which ones do you want to take away?

Your easy ....No rights at all not even the right to a meal ...Off they go right back from the place they came from or near as possible to it ..Sorted

 

[Deleted member 63160]

So what do you think the rights are, and which ones would you deny to foreigners?

The right to life? Freedom from slavery? Go on, you tell us. You're the one who proposes that foreigners should have fewer rights. Which ones do you want to take away?

Your easy ....No rights at all not even the right to a meal ...Off they go right back from the place they came from or near as possible to it ..Sorted

I think that time will come. The tide is turning. If Britain comes out of Europe the rest will collapse like a pack of cards. Countries will start to put their own interests first again.

 

[Slogger]

I think that time will come. The tide is turning. If Britain comes out of Europe the rest will collapse like a pack of cards. Countries will start to put their own interests first again.

The migrant crisis will end when we ally with Russia and back Assad eradicating ISIS and ALL of the other so called moderate rebels

 

[gasbanni]

Sorry, John, I have seen your hair-trigger mud-slinging before, and I have no interest in placating you. I'm more interested in debate and rhetoric on the general topic, not endless picking apart of the minutea of any particular example I might provide. Besides, I don't have a pre-prepared list of 'rights for foreigners' or anything. I'm just proffering the concept as an alternative viewpoint. It might not work in reality, and I may not agree with it, but discussions are so much more interesting when you look at them from every possibility.

Well said sir

 

[Slogger]

 

[noseall]

Well said sir

Why don't you give it a pop, Gasbag? You know, try writing something classy for a change instead of the usual infant school dross.

 

[jockscott]

UK prisoners have solicitors/barristers etc to fight their corner for them.
Refugees have to do so alone, navigating the various regulations, agencies, etc without assistance in many cases.
How can they do so, and produce documentary evidence, communication with their families, etc without access to basic communications?

Hmmmm well for starters, your on here , fighting their little corner. I'm sure there's thousands of solicitors/ barristers out there, making a fortune, fighting their corner.
What's "basic communication" anyway? I'd have thought "basic communication" would probably be a phone call. Do you think their families back in Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc, all have smartphones and access to the internet? I'd reckon not. So why on earth do they need high speed wifi access to the bloody internet? I'm sure if you or I were a refugee, escaping such horrors, the last thing we'd be buying on our way to the west would be a bloody iPhone. Top of our needs would be food and warm clothing, not access to Facebook, Twitter and WhatsApp. You tell me I'm wrong Himmy.

 

[jockscott]

And we'd still need to accommodate the refugees somewhere, we couldn't accommodate them at some migrant camp in Calais! We couldn't rely on EU to help us.

A Brexit will not fix our broken Border Security Agency! And it's not the fault of EU that the Agency does not work.

Surely this is proof that the EU can't control it's own borders? Once these "refugees" enter the EU, there does seem to be a large amount who are shepherded through Europe towards the channel ports. It's obvious Greece doesn't want them, Austria doesn't want them, Italy doesn't want them, Germany doesn't want them, France doesn't want them,,,,,,, and when they finally arrive at Calais (and can't get any further) the French blames the UK........ EU country after EU country have had the chance to do something positive for these people, yet have let them down and suddenly,,,,, it's all our fault.....

 

[JohnD]

I'm sure if you or I were a refugee, escaping such horrors, the last thing we'd be buying on our way to the west would be a bloody iPhone.

In the case of Syria, for example, many of the fleeing refugees are educated people used to living in the 21st century. They may be doing white-collar jobs, some of them may be plumbers.

How many people in white collar jobs, or plumbers, do you know that do not have mobile phones? How many people do you know that, fleeing from a place of danger, would not want to contact their friends and family?

Did you intend your post to be taken seriously?