First time buy, wiring any good?

[talksr]

I am looking to buy my first home. Have found a really nice mid-70s place which has been recently refurbished. Everything looks good other than wiring. Consumer unit is not 70s, looks like 90s. There are quite a few plug sockets, but most are singles which is odd. There is just one single in the conservatory which is pretty poor as the conservatory is less than two years old.

Also, the house has no telephone line (apparently owner used cable?) and absolutely no TV points in any of the walls, literally nothing anywhere - but strangely a newish areal on the side of the house, which wires into the loft somewhere. I find it odd that it has been spruced up, but these basics have been missed.

There are no out door lights, no electric door bell or mains smoke alarms - which I didn't expect for a property of this age, but I was wondering how much it might cost to put in some additional wiring and of course, some TV areal or sky leads. Any suggestions or pointers, would be really appreciated - I am not an electrician and would need to pay to get someone in.

Here are a few images of the place:

 

[deadshort]

Do you have a blueprint of the 'fusebox' ? Did you view this property suspended from a steel cable, dressed all in black ? We are more accustomed to polaroids around here

DS

 

[ericmark]

Adding wires is easy bit, repairing plaster and matching paint is the hard bit. But the start point is to work out what you already have. A socket can be fed with a radial, ring final, spur, or fused spur, until you know which, you don't know what can be added.

Coms cables be it TV or computer are better if not run with mains cables, so are a completely different issue.

Personally I don't like ladders, and I want to DIY, so a satellite dish which I can reach on a pair of step ladders is better than an aerial on the chimney. However my house I can fit a TV aerial low down so not a problem. Running TV aerial wires outside is easier then re-plastering after installing inside so most of what you need to do is work out how to get cables where you want them.

On a new occupant moving into a house one should have an electrical installation condition report (EICR) done as you really have no idea what has been done to the house. This should be step one.

 

[flameport]

Single sockets were common on 1970s installs, typically 1 for each bedroom and 2 for the other rooms.
If it still has the 1970s wiring it can probably still be used, but ultimately it is 40+ years old and really should have been replaced when the property was 'refurbished'.

Lack of sockets is a problem, since to add more will involve damage to the walls and probably the flooring.

The consumer unit will reveal nothing - that could have easily been replaced and nothing else.

Phone and TV points can be added easily, provided you don't mind visible wires on the outside of the house.
If you want the wiring for them concealed internally then non-trivial amounts of damage to the floors/walls will be necessary.

If you can get back there yourself, an easy thing to check is to unscrew one or more of the ceiling roses and see what colour the wires are inside.
A new install will have blue and brown wires.
If they are black, red and bare copper with green/yellow sleeving they are probably from the 1990s-2000s
Black, red and solid green sleeving is the original 1970s stuff.

Some other non-electrical things:
This refurbished house has no curtain rails or anything to attach one to.
The original BT phone connection is probably the small grey box on the ground at the front corner.
The gravel 'driveway' will be a continuing nuisance as there is nothing to stop the gravel spilling onto the pavement and into the road.
The red highlighted square on the side wall is where a window has been removed and bricked up.
The bedroom window has cockspur handles, which means it is fairly old and has little or no security. Check the other windows particularly at the back on ground level and directly above the conservatory.

Given the apparent lack of proper work to the electrical installation, you should also have the heating and plumbing checked - a new boiler reveals nothing as that could have just been shoved onto the 1970s pipework.

 

[Newboy]

If the bathroom/toilet have been 're-furbished' it might be worth checking why the overflow is still showing on the external wall - the majority of new WC cisterns will have internal overflows.
The fascias & soffits look new - check if the original timber has been replaced rather than overclad with uPVC board.
What's the item just below the boiler flue (between the flue and the bib-tap).
The uplighter in the conservatory looks close to the underside of the roof - it looks like a Screwfix special - used to be halogen (but may now be LED lamp)

Agree with flameport - the repair to the render looks a bit shabby and that gravel will drive you nuts quite quickly.

It looks more like a make-over than a refurbishment (nothing wrong with that though)

 

[talksr]

Single sockets were common on 1970s installs, typically 1 for each bedroom and 2 for the other rooms.
If it still has the 1970s wiring it can probably still be used, but ultimately it is 40+ years old and really should have been replaced when the property was 'refurbished'.

Lack of sockets is a problem, since to add more will involve damage to the walls and probably the flooring.

The consumer unit will reveal nothing - that could have easily been replaced and nothing else.

Phone and TV points can be added easily, provided you don't mind visible wires on the outside of the house.
If you want the wiring for them concealed internally then non-trivial amounts of damage to the floors/walls will be necessary.

If you can get back there yourself, an easy thing to check is to unscrew one or more of the ceiling roses and see what colour the wires are inside.
A new install will have blue and brown wires.
If they are black, red and bare copper with green/yellow sleeving they are probably from the 1990s-2000s
Black, red and solid green sleeving is the original 1970s stuff.

Some other non-electrical things:
This refurbished house has no curtain rails or anything to attach one to.
The original BT phone connection is probably the small grey box on the ground at the front corner.
The gravel 'driveway' will be a continuing nuisance as there is nothing to stop the gravel spilling onto the pavement and into the road.
The red highlighted square on the side wall is where a window has been removed and bricked up.
The bedroom window has cockspur handles, which means it is fairly old and has little or no security. Check the other windows particularly at the back on ground level and directly above the conservatory.

Given the apparent lack of proper work to the electrical installation, you should also have the heating and plumbing checked - a new boiler reveals nothing as that could have just been shoved onto the 1970s pipework.

Wow, I think you and I would get along well. You have highlighted a number of things I noticed, but didn't suggest in the OP as it would have dragged on too much!

Do you think the downstairs powerpoint cables would go up to the floor space between downstairs and upstairs bedrooms? I didn't think they would go down and under the laminate floor.
I will go with your sensible suggestion of checking the cabling for one of the ceiling roses. Will arrange a second viewing and will take a look at what sort of wires are inside.

Curtain rails - well spotted. My brother does a bit of DIY work and he thinks it would cost around £300 for him to put up some wooden batons above each window in the house so we can easily attach blinds, curtains etc.

Again, BT phone connection, I said to my partner, I wonder if that grey box is where it comes in, so you could well be right on that.
Didn't consider the gravel drive. The guy bought the place two years ago and removed quite a lot of foliage. T
Here is what it used to look like..

Interestingly, you will see from the above picture that the bricked up window is still bricked up so this must have been done quite a few years back.

Very good point re the plumbing and boiler, not something I had considered.

In terms of getting all of these sorts of inspections done, if we were serious on getting the place, when would we look to get these done? Should I pay someone to check it all out before we make an offer, or make an offer on the condition that the plumbing and electrical inspections come back ok? I have never made an offer on a place before and don't really know the best ways to go about these things. It was sold two years ago in the above state to the guy for £225k, it is now up for £325 so 100k increase in 2 years - I live in the South East where sadly, this is the going rate for a three bed semi.

Thanks again for your very useful post

 

[talksr]

If the bathroom/toilet have been 're-furbished' it might be worth checking why the overflow is still showing on the external wall - the majority of new WC cisterns will have internal overflows.
The fascias & soffits look new - check if the original timber has been replaced rather than overclad with uPVC board.
What's the item just below the boiler flue (between the flue and the bib-tap).
The uplighter in the conservatory looks close to the underside of the roof - it looks like a Screwfix special - used to be halogen (but may now be LED lamp)

Agree with flameport - the repair to the render looks a bit shabby and that gravel will drive you nuts quite quickly.

It looks more like a make-over than a refurbishment (nothing wrong with that though)

Thanks very much for your post.
Bathroom overflow - what you say is interesting as there used to be two overflows. You can just see the hole for the other one above the boiler flue? If I took a look in the cistern, is there an easy way for me to tell if it has an internal overflow?
How best could I check if the original timber has been replaced on the fascias and soffits? I think these may have been done before the guy bought it so might be something I would need to check myself.
The item between the boiler flue and bib-tap I am unsure of. It looks like a water pipe that is in the shape of a U. It comes out of the wall and then goes right back in again.
Conservatory uplighters are non LED I think. Hopefully, could easily take these out and put something a little nicer in.

Render repair looks to have been done before this guy bought the place, so must be quite an old repair.

 

[Newboy]

Thanks very much for your post.
Bathroom overflow - what you say is interesting as there used to be two overflows. You can just see the hole for the other one above the boiler flue? If I took a look in the cistern, is there an easy way for me to tell if it has an internal overflow?
How best could I check if the original timber has been replaced on the fascias and soffits? I think these may have been done before the guy bought it so might be something I would need to check myself.
The item between the boiler flue and bib-tap I am unsure of. It looks like a water pipe that is in the shape of a U. It comes out of the wall and then goes right back in again.
Conservatory uplighters are non LED I think. Hopefully, could easily take these out and put something a little nicer in.

Render repair looks to have been done before this guy bought the place, so must be quite an old repair.

If you look in the cistern, if there is an external overflow then there will be an open ended pipe about 1" above the water level - if you can look under the cistern there will be one pipe if it's internal overflow and two pipe if it's external. If there are still loft tanks/cisterns then I'd be interested to know the overflow arrangements.

Fascias - without actually taking a close look there's not really a lot you can see from ground level, although sometimes over-cladding is obvious from the gutter position relative to the lowest row of tiles.

The 'U' shaped pipe is the PRV outlet for the boiler and should be a lot closer to the ground

If the conservatory up-lighter is halogen then it looks to be too close to the roof (maybe wrong, just my impression)

I should add that none of the above is any reason not to buy a property - I've bought and lived in a lot worse. Providing the fabric of the building and the services are in good order then everything else is 'sortable'

 

[flameport]

Do you think the downstairs powerpoint cables would go up to the floor space between downstairs and upstairs bedrooms?

If the ground floor is a concrete slab it's very likely the cables are dropped from above. If not, then more likely to be under the ground floor.
However these are not a guarantee of anything, entirely possible for cables in any building to be above or below or even horizontally, as it really depends on who installed them and what was easier at the time.

or make an offer on the condition that the plumbing and electrical inspections come back ok?

Offers are generally made 'subject to survey' as in you offer a certain price, then when the seller agrees to sell it you have a survey / electrical inspection / plumbing & gas etc. done. The results of those are used to knock the price down by as much as required, or in reality as much as you can get away with.
It's important to consider all costs if any work is required, so 'rewiring required' is not just the cost of the electrical work but also any replastering, redecoration, replacement flooring etc.

 

[DaveHerns]

I thought it looks nice and would be happy to have it as my first purchase, obviously as long as there are no major problems.

 

[jg321]

I think the box you can see on the first picture (grey, close to the gas box), is an old Cable franchise box (now known as an Omnibox). This will probably still be serivicable, but there should be some sort of outlet in the house to connect your TV Box/cable modem into. It doesn't look like BT kit to me.

If you put the address into https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s_cid=ws_furls_adslchecker (choose address checker and select your actual address, not your postcode), this will give you some idea of broadband speeds.

If you contact any ISP, they will be able to advise if there's a stopped BT line there, or if a new one would need to be installed, in which case you'd need an engineer visit anyway.

Depending on the results from the address checker, you may be better off with Virgin, at least speed wise anyway.

 

[talksr]

I thought it looks nice and would be happy to have it as my first purchase, obviously as long as there are no major problems.

Thanks, yes we both really like it. It is the first we could see ourselves living in. Most others were either too dated, and in need of a lot of investment, or brand new, like boxes and closer to 400k with massive council tax bills.

I think the box you can see on the first picture (grey, close to the gas box), is an old Cable franchise box (now known as an Omnibox). This will probably still be serivicable, but there should be some sort of outlet in the house to connect your TV Box/cable modem into. It doesn't look like BT kit to me.

If you put the address into https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s_cid=ws_furls_adslchecker (choose address checker and select your actual address, not your postcode), this will give you some idea of broadband speeds.

If you contact any ISP, they will be able to advise if there's a stopped BT line there, or if a new one would need to be installed, in which case you'd need an engineer visit anyway.

Depending on the results from the address checker, you may be better off with Virgin, at least speed wise anyway.

The current owner did say he used to use cable so maybe the possible Omni box you mention is what he used to use?
Thanks for your suggestion. I ran the checker with the exact address details and it came back with this...

It looks from above like Virgin may be better. I am assuming they would come along and install a connection from the street right into the house so no need for a BT telephone line and expensive line rental?
Where we currently live, we get ADSL+ we are paying line rental on a BT phone we use for nothing but broadband. Seems silly.

 

[jg321]

The cable from the street will go up into that Omni box, so they'll run a cable from there into the house, unless there's one there already, although that may have got clipped back in the refurb.

Yes, in theory Virgin should be better, providing the area isn't congested (i.e. oversubscribed by Virgin). You get 14 days from install day to cancel though, so get a chance to try it. The BT one should be 25 megs, and is less subject to congestion (although this depends heavily on the ISP you choose), but is more susceptible to interference and poor wiring.

Funnily enough, we've just moved into a property with a similar situation (slow BT connection, cable area). Virgin gets installed in early Jan.

This house has the internal boxes, so I'll take some pics for you and upload at some point, to show you what I mean.

 

[endecotp]

we both really like it. It is the first we could see ourselves living in.

Buy it then! Stop worrying about unimportant details like the sockets! While you're doing that, someone else is probably making an offer.

IMHO, first job should be to reinstate the front border.

 

[John D v2.0]

Agreed with the above, remember the only things you can't change are the location and plot size. Oh and the neighbours!
The structure is also hard to change, but anything you can see is probably easy to change.
When we bought our house the floor plan liked looked great, the neighbours were great, but the house was depressing and cold. But we could change that! Meant less competition and a better price.