Why do light fittings still have live prongs

[ban-all-sheds]

A friend of mine used to know an "old crusty" electrician who would use the quick-dab-with-a-finger to distinguish between 240V and 415V.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

our lecturer got a shock when he showed the students were you put the lightbulb

What's the educational value in showing students where to put lightbulbs? Surely every student who can find his way to the college and back home without a map has already learnt about changing bulbs in the context of general life skills?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Not to put too fine a point on it, TTC, but what year was this?

About 1966 or 67. Memory fading now…is it time for my walk?…

 

[ericmark]

In the main you can't touch the contacts of a lamp holder, there is a bulb in the way, and this is I am sure the thinking behind it, same as ceiling rose is the only item where you can gain access without a tool, ceiling roses are normally mounted quite high in the room, so people of diminished mental capacity normally can't get access to them.

As said you can get shuttered light fittings, and ceiling roses which need tools, but I noted that collages seem to train those with diminished mental capacity but don't seem to generally cater for them, the normal method is to assign a carer who it is hoped keeps them out of trouble.

Even the University's have problems with health and safety, from open stair cases to using items which are designed to be used inside an enclosure as stand alone items, so the PLC we were taught with, had a terminal box for 230 volt supply which did not require a tool to open.

In my University class of 6 there were two who were considered as being competent persons as it was called then, but the lecturers were not classed as competent persons, they may have got a doctorate, but had not passed their 2391. Or any other qualification which showed they could look after the safety of others. This all came out when we wanted to use a room with switch gear in for our experiments, and the excuse was it could only be used when there was a competent person present.

I was taught in collage by lecturers with no idea of electricity, they did not need it, they taught maths, or commerce or some other non electrical subject, but when a lecturer did not turn up, they would still stand in, they were not teaching, they were just key holders.

 

[John D v2.0]

To be honest when I was ordering a couple online I noticed the mk shuttered holders were about a pound more, so I thought "given that choice only an idiot would buy the un shuttered one"
However since then when buying locally, and buying more decorative fittings, there's never been a choice.

 

[EddieM]

Slightly off topic, but it's always seemed more sensible to me that switches should be on in the up position and off in the down, as is the case in some countries I believe.

 

[JohnW2]

Slightly off topic, but it's always seemed more sensible to me that switches should be on in the up position and off in the down, as is the case in some countries I believe.

That is, of course, the situation with 'switchgear' (including Main Switches, MCBs, RCDs and RCBOs in CUs), even in the UK.

As for consumer-operated switches in general, there is such a well-established tradition/convention in the UK, any attempt to 'reverse' it (which, in most/many cases, would merely require inversion of an existing switch, would result is a very long transition period (probably decades) during which there would almost inevitably be at least some degree of increased risk to users.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

To be honest when I was ordering a couple online I noticed the mk shuttered holders were about a pound more, so I thought "given that choice only an idiot would buy the un shuttered one". However since then when buying locally, and buying more decorative fittings, there's never been a choice.

Indeed.

Despite my surprise (given everything else which has happened) that it has not been 'forced' on us, there clearly is very little demand, as witness the very limited availability to which you refer.

Kind Regards, John

 

[crystal ball]

Slightly off topic, but it's always seemed more sensible to me that switches should be on in the up position and off in the down, as is the case in some countries I believe.

And is the case in the UK - two way switching

 

[JohnW2]

And is the case in the UK - two way switching

That is arguably even more 'dangerous' a situation, since 'off' can be EITHER 'up' OR 'down', depending on the position of other switch(es).

Kind Regards, John

 

[John D v2.0]

Indeed.

Despite my surprise (given everything else which has happened) that it has not been 'forced' on us, there clearly is very little demand, as witness the very limited availability to which you refer.

Kind Regards, John

Well by that logic, I don't "demand" it, unless there's another way to demand them. This kind of safety equipment it's not something demanded by any kind of tranditional market, that's what regulation is for.
The market would quickly respond if the regulator demanded it. For example although I remember all the moaning when condensing boilers became mandatory about how they cost 500 quid extra and are unreliable, it didn't take long for them to be as good as the old one and as cheap.

 

[JohnW2]

Well by that logic, I don't "demand" it, unless there's another way to demand them. This kind of safety equipment it's not something demanded by any kind of tranditional market, that's what regulation is for.

Indeed, that's largely true (although it's not unknown for a significant proportion of 'a market' to favour products which exceed some minimum standard imposed by regulation).

... but, yes, that's the point. Shuttered lampholders clearly have not (yet) been deemed to be necessary by the regulators. I remain surprised since, although I imagine that the number of people who have come to harm as a result of lampholders is extremely small, the same is undoubtedly true of many of the hazards of the past which have been deemed to require regulation to reduce/eliminate them.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

For example although I remember all the moaning when condensing boilers became mandatory about how they cost 500 quid extra and are unreliable, it didn't take long for them to be as good as the old one and as cheap.

But have they become worthwhile from an efficiency POV in that same period, or are there still vast numbers of them which hardly, or never, get into condensing mode?

 

[John D v2.0]

But have they become worthwhile from an efficiency POV in that same period, or are there still vast numbers of them which hardly, or never, get into condensing mode?

Which side of the answer are you on?
Installers would be used to them by now when sizing radiators, and there are loads of smart thermostats with open therm etc, so although clearly some would be fitted to inefficient systems, I wouldn't say that's true indefinitely.
Also some combis have flue gas recuperators (at further expense) so that they will condense in hot water mode even with a high selected dhw temperature. Eg the ideal logic code esp1 has one, so that would be in condensing mode during all dhw use.

 

[JohnW2]

For example although I remember all the moaning when condensing boilers became mandatory about how they cost 500 quid extra and are unreliable, it didn't take long for them to be as good as the old one and as cheap.

I very much doubt that any condensing boiler will ever be as 'reliable' as my ancient non-condensing one, which has no electronics and very few components which can go wrong (just a gas valve, burner, thermocouple and water container).

I also rather doubt that, without extensive changes to my (also extensive) CH system, a condensing boiler would be significant more efficient than a non-condensing one.

Kind Regards, John