£200M of tax payers money for private home upgrades?

[motorbiking]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48211833

Can this really be justified? The homes will have increased value once the work is done. Surely the government should be providing loans rather than hand outs?

I don't see why others should pay for these upgrades. I do get the argument that the government failed to legislation properly, but meeting the full cost goes a bit far.

 

[Notch7]

I cant see the argument the flats will increase in value.

The leaseholders will have bought before Grenfell and their properties wouldve become unsaleable following the fire.

Removing the cladding will return the buildings back to their original value.

 

[Bodd]

I don't ont see how the builders and the producers of this cladding have got away Scott free.

 

[noseall]

I font see how the builders and the producers of this cladding have got away Scott free.

How do you know they have 'got away' with anything? Have you an indication of culpability?

 

[Bodd]

How do you know they have 'got away' with anything? Have you an indication of culpability?

It was on LBC news the other day that the government have stepped in because the respoble ones refused to fit the bill.

 

[noseall]

I said on LBC the other day that the government have stepped in because the respoble ones refused to fit the bill.

Which responsible ones? Who has been deemed culpable? Have any of those 'responsible' been prosecuted or been taken to court? Did you know the inquiry and investigations have yet to conclude?

 

[tony1851]

Fire regs in Part B have often been 'open to interpretation', which suggests that the legislation was not properly and unambiguously drawn up.
As many private landlords would then possibly have some redress/excuse, it is likely that some private developments would not be upgraded while court cases dragged on for years.
Maybe the government biting the bullet is best in the interests of fire safety, before we have another disaster.
£200m is a lot of money, but not much more than the £150m being utterley wasted on a useless European Parliament election caused by the duplicitous, lying, cheating human road-block squatting in 10 Downing Street.

 

[ellal]

£200m is a lot of money, but not much more than the £150m being utterley wasted on a useless European Parliament election caused by the duplicitous, lying, cheating human road-block squatting in 10 Downing Street.

"duplicitous, lying, cheating"

How about the £3.1bn 'overspend' on a telecommunications system?

Or the £60bn+ on HS2?

Or the billions developers have creamed in due to 'help to buy'?

One must get a bit of perspective, and then realise that the purpose of government is to take public money and pour it into into the pockets of corporates/private individuals, along with a bit for themselves...
(corporates/private individuals who 'coincidentally' appear to be major donors of certain political parties)

Thus £150m on fulfilling a democratic requirement is but a drop in the ocean!

 

[bernardgreen]

"duplicitous, lying, cheating"

More like ignorance and incompetence when planning and costing new projects. Also possible putting too much trust in suppliers

The Emergency Services Network depends of software created specifically the the UK emergncy services by Motorola

Quoting from https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_xu/communications/esn.html

A NEW EMERGENCY SERVICES NETWORK...
Faster responses, safer resolutions. The new Emergency Services Network (ESN) will transform public safety in the UK. With integrated 4G voice and broadband data services, over two-hundred thousand users across police, fire and emergency medical services will benefit from mission critical data that is both reliable and secure. Improved situational awareness will allow users to make more efficient decisions and communicate under the most challenging conditions. It’s the public safety network the UK has been waiting for. Getting the network right from day one is critical - lives depend upon it. That’s why Motorola Solutions has been chosen as a trusted ESN partner.

...WITH USER SERVICES MANAGED BY THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMUNICATIONS LEADER
Public safety communications is Motorola Solutions’ core business. To meet the challenge of managing User Services, a dedicated ESN business unit has been created. Service Operations will be staffed by highly trained personnel who understand the roles and needs of the emergency services. Motorola Solutions' blueprint for the delivery of Mission Critical Managed Services assures availability and quality of services to all users.

The new ESN system has to take over the function of several different systems ( paging, analogue voice comms , digitised voice comms, data comms and others ). Not an easy task when one has all the information about those existing systems. That information has to include the various "work arounds" that are in daily use. Without that information the designers of the new ESN system will not be able to replicate the functions, often essential functions, that depend on the un-documented work arounds.

In the 1980's one of my tasks in radio paging systems was designing interfaces between British manufactured paging systems and american equipment. These were for the operators of city wide public access paging systems in several countries.

The american business ethic was not good. They would come in at a very low price with assurance that their equipment operated as per the specification. It did not operate as specified and we had to re-design our interfaces to get the system working for the end customer.

I believe that business ethic of coming in at a (very ) low price to get the contract and then adding extra cost to cover the erros and ommisions in the customer produced specification still exists in many suppliers. Some of these errors and ommissions would be obvious to the supplier and could be raised with the customer BEFORE the contract price is given.

END OF RANT

 

[ellal]

More like ignorance and incompetence when planning and costing new projects. Also possible putting too much trust in suppliers

Thanks for summing up the definition of naivety

 

[Ihavenojob]

Who would want to live in that block after what happened ? Surely it would be better & possibly cheaper to demolish & build highly efficient safe homes.

 

[Bodd]

Thanks for summing up the definition of naivety

Thanks for the definition of being a prat

 

[SirGalahad]

Seem like a classic case of weak regulation and enforcement and so there is market failure. But isn't this how free markets are supposed to work - let them put in defective cladding so if the tower burns down we can sue those responsible and this will act as a market signal to current and future builders and home buyers. The current fall in price of their properties is the market working efficiently to price in new information.

We all trumpet free markets on here so why the cold feet now? Or is it that free markets are not really free as someone has to create the rules and regulations which inevitable benefit those who can have most influence in how they are created in the first place.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

£200m is a lot of money, but not much more than the £150m being utterley wasted on a useless European Parliament election caused by the duplicitous, lying, cheating human road-block squatting in 10 Downing Street.

And how much has the exercise of leaving the EU wasted so far?

 

[noseall]

Who would want to live in that block after what happened ? Surely it would be better & possibly cheaper to demolish & build highly efficient safe homes.

Neither the thread or the link provided are about Grenfell (which is earmarked for demolition).