Instant Hot Water

[MisterFish]

Hi

I am currently undertaking some renovation works on the top floor of my three-storey Victorian house. As part of this I am updating the toilet room on that floor. The room consists of a toilet and a wash hand basin only.

The hot water in my house all comes from a large Combi boiler on the ground floor. If I were to bring hot water to that wash hand basin from that Combi boiler, the hot water would take several minutes to get there, and in order to just wash your hands, I would be needing to heat several gallons of water to push it through the pipe that far. Neither of which seem very sensible.

Accordingly I need a way of delivering hot water to a single wash hand basin in a small toilet room. As it seems to be increasingly common in my life these days, I am looking at something about which I know absolutely nothing.

Is there such a thing as a small, discrete, instant water heater that would do the job here? As I say it's a single wash hand basin and it's a small room so I really don't want anything enormous.

Any advice or ideas would be most welcome. Thank you chaps.

 

[terryplumb]

There are instantaneous electric water heaters available ,but I wouldn't call them discrete. Its not likely to take several minutes for hot water to get to a third floor from the combi, but I take your point of wasted water as a valid one ,however in real terms what would that amount to ?

 

[MisterFish]

I disagree. The kitchen sink is right next to the Combi boiler and from turning on the tap to getting out sensibly hot water is about 30-40 seconds. Add that to the push through from the ground floor back to the second floor front of the house and we are looking at some time. Having use the loo, I then want to wash my hands and go, not wait endlessly for the water to get hot. I also don't want to think about the expensive hot water cooling nicely in the pipes every time I have a whizz.

The bathroom is first floor, directly above the kitchen. In order to get water to the front of the house on the second floor I will have to have up almost every floor in the house, almost certainly including the tiled bathroom floor. This comes under the heading of "not really a lot of fun". In any event, is not the way I want to go.

Can you give me any suggestions or advice about instant water heaters? I was aware that they existed, I know very little about them, I was hoping that someone who did might give me some pointers.



Thanks

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

You can get 3Kw instant water heaters, specially designed for hand washing purposes over wash basins. Like an electric shower, but less flow from a rotating spout.

 

[wundaboy]

You'd be looking either at one of these or one of these. (many brands of both types available).

The first isn't true on-demand as it stores water, which means it'll be consuming electricity over time even if not used, because the thermostat will be clicking on and off to keep the water store at temperature. However, it will work from a spur off a nearby socket circuit so the installation costs are less.

The second is a true on demand heater and will use electricity only when water is drawn off. However, due to its 9.5kw rating, it will require the installation of a new 40-45A circuit from the main board in quite expensive 10mm2 cable. It won't be possible to run it off an existing circuit.

Two other options - as Harry mentions above a 3kw handwash unit that can be run off a nearby socket circuit - but bear in mind they have very low flow, especially in the winter - or wash your hands in cold water.

 

[terryplumb]

Fair enough. They need an electric supply and mains cold water supply. 3kw would be ample for hand washing over a basin. Fitted one two days ago ,Triton brand , T30i model,from screwfix £ 69.99.

 

[bernardgreen]

but I take your point of wasted water as a valid one ,however in real terms what would that amount to ?

There is also the amount of gas wasted.

 

[ianmcd]

you would be very surprised about the amount of people in their own homes and in public toilets who use the hot tap to wash their hands , when in reality the water never actually gets hot, they are just wasting energy and causing unnecessary stress to the boiler, with modern hand wash hot water is not really needed, personally I always use the cold tap, and it drives me nuts when I have visitors and hear the boiler clicking on and off for seconds at a time when someone hand washing in the bathroom .

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

and it drives me nuts when I have visitors and hear the boiler clicking on and off for seconds at a time when someone hand washing in the bathroom .

That doesn't happen with an open vented system

 

[ericmark]

There are two methods, one is a small heater and a water store maybe as small as 2 litres very well insulated, the one I had stored 7 litres and it used 1000W to heat it, I used it in a caravan the main advantage was does not need a massive supply, the other method is to only heat when required, that needs at least three times as much power some using 6 times the power to the one storing water, but they are smaller in size and don't use any power if not used. But I found the one I had would switch on around 5 times a day to top up heat, is was so well insulated.

 

[MisterFish]

Thanks for all the info chaps. I think that this is the way I am going to go.

It's smaller, it's more discreet, and it only uses power when it needs to heat water. A toilet and the second floor may well be used 10 times in a day and then not used at all for a couple of weeks. Seems to make more sense.

I am having a sparky in for a first fix to things on the rest of the floor so putting in the extra circuit, while not being without cost, isn't likely to be that much extra beyond materials.

The other thing is that my next major job on the house is the first floor and I am putting in a small bathroom directly below this toilet. Again this is at the front of the house and I will need to supply hot water to a wash hand basin and a shower. I can now fit an electric shower and draw the basin water from the second floor heater.

Again, thanks for your help.

 

[durhamplumber]

That doesn't happen with an open vented system

No..you just have the house heated 24/7 all summer instead.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

No..you just have the house heated 24/7 all summer instead.

Explain how there is a necessity to have a house heated 24/7 all summer, in order to have an open vented system, because completely I fail to see any connection at all.

 

[durhamplumber]

Explain how there is a necessity to have a house heated 24/7 all summer, in order to have an open vented system, because completely I fail to see any connection at all.

Several Gledhill units for starters.And that rather large copper tank full of hot water is another clue!Nice big radiator.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Several Gledhill units for starters.And that rather large copper tank full of hot water is another clue!Nice big radiator.

Which are very well insulated and tucked away in an airing cupboard and cause me no heat issues. The tiny amount of waste heat, performs a very useful function in keeping things 'aired' in the airing cupboard. Value of waste heat is just pennies, which I can afford without a second thought.

The fact that it is open vented makes it much easier to diagnose and repair, as I have done for the past 40 years. My choice, my preference, so where is the problem?