Ho do I prepare this area for lawn?

[ax222s]

Hi all,

I have about 150square metres of very uneven ground that I want to lawn. Lots of debris (bricks, stones, rocks etc...). Ive dug in a few spots and it seems the stones etc are mostly on the surface, then 15cm of clay, then soil. (although I have discovered a few breeze blocks under the surface!)

Heres some photos to show you what Im working with :



How best to lay a lawn? As far as I can see (and I have NO knowledge about this) I could either:
1) Flatten the ground using a roller. Tip a load of top soil over it (15cm maybe?) and flatten as best I can and then lay turf over that.
Or
2) Remove as much of the debris as I can (and build a rockery so I dont have to hire a skip), rotovate the clay/soil and flatten, then lay turf.

It doesnt have to be Wimbledon quality, but it would be nice to have a lawn that doesnt have dips in!

Any thoughts/advice greatly received!

 

[sodthisforfun]

Go for 2. Need to remove all that rubble, though will be hard hard work. Give it a good dig over, mix in some organic material if you wish into the clay to help break it down, remove any weeds and roots you can, then rake even & if can afford it, a layer of top soil would be good.

Then either buy turf (quicker) or grow from seed (cheaper)... or get fake grass (very expensive!)

The better the ground is prepared, the better and stronger the lawn will be. If you leave large stones in there, you may find patches of your lawn won't grow that well because they can't put roots down for nutrients and water. Grass roots are fairly deep, up to 25cm.

 

[ax222s]

The better the ground is prepared, the better and stronger the lawn will be. If you leave large stones in there, you may find patches of your lawn won't grow that well because they can't put roots down for nutrients and water. Grass roots are fairly deep, up to 25cm.

Wow! I did not know that!

 

[sodthisforfun]

Wow! I did not know that!

And, well, apologies - was having a brain fart... It's more like 3" - 6" so about 15cm deep. I was trying to remember when reading about it last year when we did our lawn from scratch. Ours was similar to yours when we started. Apologies again!

 

[ax222s]

Haha, no probs @sodthisforfun !

I spent a very disappointing hour today prodding about at a patch of ground, and then gave up. Wasnt sure how to tackle the situation. I was using a spade and removed a few bigger stones. Its obviously been used as a dumping ground for builders waste. Theres breeze block and all sorts under the surface! I dont mind putting in the elbow grease - in fact, given Ive been locked up for weeks - Ive got lots of energy to burn, but Ive no idea what Im doing!

Can you tell me the process you did to remove the debris? Is it just a case of using a spade and rooting out all the stones? Perhaps theres a tool I could rent that would do a better job?

As I was pulling at the weeds, I thought perhaps a more thorough method would be to spray a load of gallup weed killer on it. My concern is the weeds will just come up through my new lawn(?)

 

[Munroast]

How long has it stood like that ? there is not much trying to grow out of it.

First thing I would do is dig 2 or 3 pits, foot square 18" deep, and have a good look at what comes out, is it organic soil or just sub soil? No point putting in a huge effort if all you have is sub soil, and looking at what is growing out of it now, that may well be the case.

Then fill the pits full of water and time how long it takes the water to vanish, if the water takes ages to go away you may need to double dig the whole patch.

 

[ax222s]

How long has it stood like that ? there is not much trying to grow out of it.

First thing I would do is dig 2 or 3 pits, foot square 18" deep, and have a good look at what comes out, is it organic soil or just sub soil? No point putting in a huge effort if all you have is sub soil, and looking at what is growing out of it now, that may well be the case.

Then fill the pits full of water and time how long it takes the water to vanish, if the water takes ages to go away you may need to double dig the whole patch.

Thanks, I shall that over the next day or so and report back my findings. (if anyone cares!)

Its been like that since Ive been here, so just over 2 years.

 

[sodthisforfun]

Haha, no probs @sodthisforfun !

I spent a very disappointing hour today prodding about at a patch of ground, and then gave up. Wasnt sure how to tackle the situation. I was using a spade and removed a few bigger stones. Its obviously been used as a dumping ground for builders waste. Theres breeze block and all sorts under the surface! I dont mind putting in the elbow grease - in fact, given Ive been locked up for weeks - Ive got lots of energy to burn, but Ive no idea what Im doing!

Can you tell me the process you did to remove the debris? Is it just a case of using a spade and rooting out all the stones? Perhaps theres a tool I could rent that would do a better job?

As I was pulling at the weeds, I thought perhaps a more thorough method would be to spray a load of gallup weed killer on it. My concern is the weeds will just come up through my new lawn(?)

Yeah, it's hard flipping work. Ours too had been used to bury rubble - we had two layers of it. One just under the surface and then about another foot down - full of all sorts. Found a dead dog and a cat too, well the bones and various bit of rubbish, Victorian bottles and 80's crisp wrappers!
Am afraid my partner and I (when he wasn't working at weekends) sat side by side and dug a bit over then while on our hands and knees we took out all the large bits of rubble. The bit we were laying as lawn wasn't even close to being as big as yours and it took us best part of 2 weeks (I did some every evening too). We had to hire a skip because it we took out so much rubble and also had many trips to the refuse centre, until they told us off. Maybe you could hire a rotavator to make things easier with the digging up stage?

Weedkiller is a good idea for speed and killing the roots off. Takes 2 weeks to work well so that gives you two more weeks off the hard work, ha ha.

 

[JohnD]

I once went over mine with a 12mm sieve. Wouldn't do that again.

You can hire or buy a machine with a rotating sieve in the form of a drum, with some, the large material travels down the drum and falls out of the end into your barrow, and the fine material falls through into your other barrow. During the rotation, clods break up and loose soil detaches from the rocks.

Small ones are about the size (and technology) or a mortar mixer.

Called a "Trommel," obviously.

 

[Munroast]

Thanks, I shall that over the next day or so and report back my findings. (if anyone cares!)

Its been like that since Ive been here, so just over 2 years.

so you havnt sprayed it with weed killer / round up or anything ?
what I am trying to establish is; is what we can see growing now all the natural growth in the last two years ?
if so, then I'm thinking it may not be very good soil (it could just be super compacted) but I'm still thinking that may not be proper soil - any worms when you dig?
any soil like stuff you do dig out - add a touch of water and does it become a bit sticky, easily make your hands dirty with it ?

 

[scbk]

Unless you really really like digging with a spade, looks an ideal job to get someone local with a mini digger in for the day

 

[ax222s]

so you havnt sprayed it with weed killer / round up or anything ?
what I am trying to establish is; is what we can see growing now all the natural growth in the last two years ?
if so, then I'm thinking it may not be very good soil (it could just be super compacted) but I'm still thinking that may not be proper soil - any worms when you dig?
any soil like stuff you do dig out - add a touch of water and does it become a bit sticky, easily make your hands dirty with it ?

I sprayed it with weedkiller about a year ago. So what you see is a year's growth. My initial inspection shows its clay, with soil underneath. I will do as you say and dig a few deeper holes to get a better idea of what Im working with. Next door (the others side to the wooden fence) have a lovely lawn, so thats promising!

 

[ax222s]

Unless you really really like digging with a spade, looks an ideal job to get someone local with a mini digger in for the day

Unfortunately I think access will be a problem.

My girlfriend is always saying I like digging holes for myself.

 

[Munroast]

You need one of these, pick axe tool jammed into a piece of heavy pipe, at about 2½x stone it soon goes down to the hilt, and then you can swing on it with all your might - makes quick work of loosening up well compacted ground. Great upper body work out too.

Just the thing for this locked-up prison cell summer, breaking rocks in a hot sun, get yourself one of those uniforms with the arrows on and whistle along to sam cooks chain gang. Few beers at the end of the day- just perfect

 

[ax222s]

You need one of these, pick axe tool jammed into a piece of heavy pipe, at about 2½x stone it soon goes down to the hilt, and then you can swing on it with all your might - makes quick work of loosening up well compacted ground. Great upper body work out too.

Just the thing for this locked-up prison cell summer, breaking rocks in a hot sun, get yourself one of those uniforms with the arrows on and whistle along to sam cooks chain gang. Few beers at the end of the day- just perfect

Funnily enough, I have almost the exact implement! I used it to dig out a pathway.

If it doesnt rain at lunch Im going to go out and dig some 18 inch holes and see if its top soil or sub soil. Ill report back!