Portable 230v supply

[opps]

Just come across this

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/...on/205722---sys-pst-1500-li-hp-gb240#Overview

From the marketing blurb

"Boasting 1500 watt-hours, a full 2990 watts of continuous power output and a top power output of up to 11,000 watts, the portable energy storage device delivers a reliable 230-volt mains voltage that lasts." 3 hour charge time and 16kg weight.

Sounds impressive, but at an RRP of £3,132 it is a bit beyond my budget.

I am not really sure who (in the UK) it is pitched at given that most site tradesmen use 110v tools- perhaps they could still plug their transformer in though. I also wonder what happens to the the antistatic properties of the tools given that (I believe) they need a earth.

Does anyone else sell something similar?

 

[SFK]

YEs others produce these big Battery packs.
This is 1800W continuous power output (Surge 3300W)
Powered by a Battery with capacity 1260Wh.
https://www.hampshiregenerators.co....rs/ecoflow-delta-1300-portable-power-station/

I've seen them mainly used by remote computer users needing a supply for a few days.

The lack of Ground is not an ESD/static issue.

But I would think (not sure) that this being 240V would not be allowed on site, even if then plugged into a 110V isolater brick.

SFK

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I am not really sure who (in the UK) it is pitched at given that most site tradesmen use 110v tools- perhaps they could still plug their transformer in though. I also wonder what happens to the the antistatic properties of the tools given that (I believe) they need a earth.

A couple of years back I think I'd have agreed with your comment about 110 volt tools, but now I'm not sure. With the larger batteries we have (e.g. Milwaukee and Bosch with 12 Amp 18 volt packs), higher voltages (e.g DW at 54 volts, Hikoki 36 volts, Makita 40 volts) as well as dual battery 18 volt tools (Makita), the need for corded tools on site is rapidly diminishing. Certainly on 2nd fix joinery it is all doable with cordless tools and I have already tackled a complete restaurant fit out and a couple of shop fits without a single corded tool.

DW already sell a power pack which allows you to run, say, a 110 volt 1/2 in router off 4 no 54 volt Flexvolt batteries. Milwaukee also sell several portable power packs. I can see this sort of thing being useful to power site lighting without the nuisance of either cabling or generators. Similarly in no mains power sites the welfare facilities could be powered by something like these without the need, as now, to have a diesel generator. Obviously this would be smaller sites

 

[Captain Nemesis]

I wonder what the lifetime of these things is, if kept fully charged (is it OK to leave them on charge 24x7?) and very rarely used?

Properly stored and maintained, (and admittedly with a fuel-refresh procedure), a generator will last for a long time.

 

[opps]

YEs others produce these big Battery packs.
This is 1800W continuous power output (Surge 3300W)
Powered by a Battery with capacity 1260Wh.
https://www.hampshiregenerators.co....rs/ecoflow-delta-1300-portable-power-station/

I've seen them mainly used by remote computer users needing a supply for a few days.

The lack of Ground is not an ESD/static issue.

But I would think (not sure) that this being 240V would not be allowed on site, even if then plugged into a 110V isolater brick.

SFK

I was under the impression that their tools need a path to earth to deal with the potential static. I am reminded of a mate who worked in a customer's house with his festool dust extractor and sander- for the first time, he noticed that the hose was picking up dust from the floor. He assumed that the socket had a faulty earth. I personally haven't experienced that.

 

[opps]

A couple of years back I think I'd have agreed with your comment about 110 volt tools, but now I'm not sure. With the larger batteries we have (e.g. Milwaukee and Bosch with 12 Amp 18 volt packs), higher voltages (e.g DW at 54 volts, Hikoki 36 volts, Makita 40 volts) as well as dual battery 18 volt tools (Makita), the need for corded tools on site is rapidly diminishing. Certainly on 2nd fix joinery it is all doable with cordless tools and I have already tackled a complete restaurant fit out and a couple of shop fits without a single corded tool.

DW already sell a power pack which allows you to run, say, a 110 volt 1/2 in router off 4 no 54 volt Flexvolt batteries. Milwaukee also sell several portable power packs. I can see this sort of thing being useful to power site lighting without the nuisance of either cabling or generators. Similarly in no msind power sites the welfare facilities could be powered by something like these without the need, as now, to have a diesel generator. Obviously this would be smaller sites

Have we reached the stage where a 1200W dust extractor can run off batteries though? (Genuine question). As a decorator I am often pulling up to 13 amps when the sander is connected to my dust extractor. That said, my work is domestic so I use 230v anyway, and given that I am at the end of the food chain, electricity, or rather, the lack of, is seldom an issue.

 

[opps]

I wonder what the lifetime of these things is, if kept fully charged (is it OK to leave them on charge 24x7?) and very rarely used?

Properly stored and maintained, (and admittedly with a fuel-refresh procedure), a generator will last for a long time.

Agreed, although it is covered by a 3 year warranty, my experience of batteries is that they are covered by 6 months whilst the actual unit is covered by the 3 years. 3 years of a battery that holds 10% of the charge, at an initial price of three grand would be more than slightly irksome.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Have we reached the stage where a 1200W dust extractor can run off batteries though? (Genuine question).

I very much doubt it. Cordless vacuums used with saws are only just fit for purpose (i have a Makita dual 18 volt cordless, a couple of colleagues have the DW 54 volt cordless) and battery life is risible, so we may be some way off yet - a bit like EVs where everyone is telling us (well, me) that electric vans are viable (really? A 200 mile max range 400kg payload and the bargain price of only £40k)

 

[SFK]

tools need a path to earth to deal with the potential static

Most tools are now double insulated.
The earth wire does not reach the body of the tool.
And either way does not reduce static in the plastic tube of vacummns.

This is the same form my industrial extractor vac that has a metal body and so is earthed as not double insulated.
But the 10cm plastic vac tube is not earthed and can become slightly statically charged.
However my understaining is that suitable plastics are selected by manufacturer for vac tubes that reduces chance of this plastic tubing getting a high enough charge to discharge.

(Plexiglass is a material that can easlily store high levels of static charge).

 

[opps]

Most tools are now double insulated.
The earth wire does not reach the body of the tool.
And either way does not reduce static in the plastic tube of vacummns.

This is the same form my industrial extractor vac that has a metal body and so is earthed as not double insulated.
But the 10cm plastic vact tube is not earthed and can become slightly statically charged.
However my understaining is that suitable plastics are selected by manufacturer for vac tubes that reduces chance of this plastic tubing getting a high enough charge to discharge.

(Plexiglass is a material that can easlily store high levels of static charge).

As you said, my Festool sanders and dust extractors are double isolated, but the body of the tools and the antistatic hoses have a return path to earth. My first Festo sander, the DX93, actually had a copper spring/lug in the dust extraction port that was held captive against the hose pipe. At the dust extractor, there is another copper contact that runs from the hose to the earth cable.

Seriously, I am not making this stuff up. From what I have read elsewhere, the early antistatic hoses (developed by other companies) actually had a copper spine that ran along the ridges of the hose. Festool, since the days of Festo have started using conductive "plastics" . Oh, and if I am a victim of marketing, I am sure that Jobandknock will set me right.

 

[SFK]

conductive "plastics"

As someone who uses 'ESD Solvent dispensors' I know you are not 'making this up'.
https://uk.farnell.com/multicomp/146-0041/esd-solvent-dispenser-4oz-each/dp/1503218

There is a lot of discussion by poeple who make their own extarctor tubing if they should or should not run a earth wire down inside of the tubes (and many do).
Hence why I have used 'real' extractor hose and avoided using long lengths of waste pipes.

Conductive plastics or a conductive wire is not always needed.
Can also use plastic that does not take on a charge - which is what most do as most items do not have an earth.

As an interesting example - the construction of ESB bags that you get memory chips in is from inside out:
An internal polyethylene layer, a conductive metallised polyester layer and an external antistatic and abrasion resistant lacquer.
Together these create a Faraday cage around the product which protect the device from direct contact with electrostatic discharge, whilst also stopping the contents of the bag charging up via field induction.
Note that there is no connection to earth for this.

If you want realy big arguments (sorry discussions), look up the forums on 'does a faraday cage need to be earthed or isolated from earth duirng a Electromagnetic Pulse Nuclear attack - the answer if probably first one, then the next, and then does not matter.

SFK

 

[Captain Nemesis]

at an RRP of £3,132 it is a bit beyond my budget.

You can get a very good genny for £3K

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Maybe. But just what is the carbon footprint of that? I may not like these power packs, but the days of small, portable generators are definitely numbered

 

[Captain Nemesis]

Given the embedded emissions in the production of lithium batteries, and the emissions from electricity generation, I would say that if the genererator is very little used its comparative footprint might not be high.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I take your point about while life carbon footprint (one of the things which makes me sceptical about EVs), but pretty much every time I've come across generators being used, either on site or in settings such as caravans, boats, etc they get run for hours at a time rather than minutes. And they are generally pretty noisy