Hydrogen ready?

[BlueLoo]

"Hydrogen ready" keeps popping up.

I look at my old boiler and wonder how or if it can cope with a methane/hydrogen mix.

Is this another Y2k shizzle?

Any decent links, papers etc i can read up on to get clued up as to what, if anything is coming and when?

Cheers

 

[bernardgreen]

Starting point for your research

https://cadentgas.com/news-media/news/february-2021/hydrogen-homes-of-the-future-in-2021

 

[Wayners]

They need to upgrade pipes as hydrogen is corrosive.
Some boilers are dual fuel and flick a switch to run on either fuel.
It's along way off yet. I thought electric boilers were the future but seems not.
YouTube is good place to see interviews with people that know.
I think it's a long way off for many of us although our gas pipes have been upgraded.

 

[flameport]

Any decent links, papers etc i can read up on to get clued up as to what, if anything is coming and when?

Burning hydrogen in the home as a fuel is a total bust, and will never get anywhere other than a few 'showcase' installations.
It's just the last gasps of an expiring fossil fuel industry desperate to carry on for just that little bit longer.

I thought electric boilers were the future but seems not.

They are not, due to their grossly inefficient use of electricity, which makes them far too expensive to use.

Like it or not, the whole concept of burning fuels of any kind for heating, cooking, transport and anything else is going away. Permanently.

 

[gas112]

[QUOTE="flameport, post: 5129953, member: 50674"




Like it or not, the whole concept of burning fuels of any kind for heating, cooking, transport and anything else is going away. Permanently.[/QUOTE]
So where do you think all this electricity is going to come from 24/7. 365 days a year

 

[fixitflav]

Like it or not, the whole concept of burning fuels of any kind for heating, cooking, transport and anything else is going away. Permanently.

Unless you live in China or India

 

[flameport]

So where do you think all this electricity is going to come from 24/7. 365 days a year

A mix of generation sources. More of them will certainly be needed.

Hydrogen doesn't magically appear from nowhere either, it has to be created.
Most hydrogen produced today is obtained from natural gas - making it a complete waste of energy to then use that hydrogen as a fuel, as it's far more efficient to just use the gas.

The other option to create hydrogen is from electricity and water, and that would require a massive increase in electricity generation. It's also far less efficient than just using the electricity.

 

[gas112]

A mix of generation sources. More of them will certainly be needed.

Hydrogen doesn't magically appear from nowhere either, it has to be created.
Most hydrogen produced today is obtained from natural gas - making it a complete waste of energy to then use that hydrogen as a fuel, as it's far more efficient to just use the gas.

The other option to create hydrogen is from electricity and water, and that would require a massive increase in electricity generation. It's also far less efficient than just using the electricity.

Most of them will be needed you mean like what happened in texas last winter with people freezing to death during a cold snap when renewable etc could not remotely cope

 

[bernardgreen]

It's also far less efficient than just using the electricity.

Getting hydrogen produced by electricity from source through the network to the end user uses some energy to pump the gas. Getting the same amount of power to the end user as electrical power involves much larger amounts of energy being lost due to unavoidable losses ( a heat ) along the cables in the electricity grid.

 

[flameport]

Getting hydrogen produced by electricity from source through the network to the end user uses some energy to pump the gas.

Plus the rather substantial losses during electrolysis
Plus whatever you are using to store the hydrogen before distribution - which is either compressing or cooling it to liquid form, both of which require substantial amounts of electricity.
Plus the fact that all gas distribution networks have losses due to leakage.
Plus the losses of the hydrogen boiler itself.

Other problems include the fact that no hydrogen distribution network exists, burning hydrogen in air creates large amounts of NOx pollution, and a hydrogen flame is near invisible, making it a non-starter for applications like gas hobs as mentioned in that Cadent propaganda piece.

Every part of using hydrogen as a home heating fuel is a massive fail.

 

[gas112]

Plus the rather substantial losses during electrolysis
Plus whatever you are using to store the hydrogen before distribution - which is either compressing or cooling it to liquid form, both of which require substantial amounts of electricity.
Plus the fact that all gas distribution networks have losses due to leakage.
Plus the losses of the hydrogen boiler itself.

Other problems include the fact that no hydrogen distribution network exists, burning hydrogen in air creates large amounts of NOx pollution, and a hydrogen flame is near invisible, making it a non-starter for applications like gas hobs as mentioned in that Cadent propaganda piece.

Every part of using hydrogen as a home heating fuel is a massive fail.

It's a 20/25% hydrogen mixed with natural gas so flame will still be visible

 

[JohnD]

Every part of using hydrogen as a home heating fuel is a massive fail.

yes, there are certainly inefficiencies, just as there are inefficiencies in using gas to generate electricity.

If sunlight and land weren't practically free in the Sahara and parts of North Africa, it might not be worth bothering with.

Did you know that oil and natural gas are transported even longer distances?

 

[flameport]

Did you know that oil and natural gas are transported even longer distances?

Yes - the entire fossil fuel industry is built on inefficiency and waste, which is why it must end. Not be reduced - stopped.

It's a 20/25% hydrogen mixed with natural gas so flame will still be visible

That's not using hydrogen as a fuel. It's just tinkering with the mixture of gas so that it can be claimed that CO2 emissions have been slightly reduced so everything is just fine.

 

[JohnD]

Yes - the entire fossil fuel industry is built on inefficiency and waste, which is why it must end. Not be reduced - stopped.

so you'll be pleased that solar electricity and hydrogen are not fossil fuels.

 

[muggles]

Hydrogen is a red herring. Yes, we might get a 20% hydrogen blend in certain areas of the country but it'll go no further. It uses an enormous amount of electricity to produce and store it - electricity which would be better employed heating homes directly. The entire network and many many miles of internal pipework within people's homes, plus appliances, would need to be upgraded. The cost will be vast (around £30-40bn) and many homes would need subsidising in order to be able to do it. I think we'll see 100% hydrogen in a few dedicated new build estates with on-site storage but it'll soon be dropped