Does Nato have
- Thread starter transam
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The Manchester bombing was one of the unintended consequences of the NATO bombing of Libya.
The mad colonal Gaddafi was a dictator but he wasn't an Islamic fundamentalist dictator, he also had a deal with the EU to prevent migrants using Libya to enter the EU illegally.
When his regime was toppled by the NATO bombing campaign this allowed Islamic fundamentalism to flourish in the Chaos that ensued.
This then allowed people like the Manchester bomber who hated Britain to claim asylum here and carry out the Manchester atrocity.
Obama mentioned IS groups forming as a result of the Afghanistan escapade. Truly wonderful one. Current sanctions are causing the general population a lot of problems.
Arming Bin Laden's lot when the Russians were in. Another brilliant idea.
Arming Bin Laden's lot when the Russians were in. Another brilliant idea.
I think what’s obvious is that Western nations need to stay out of matters in countries outside of the west at all costs. It has utterly ruined our moral position … the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I remember being furious at the US/UK over the Iraq War, Afghanistan to my mind was justified at the time but we knew that it was going to come back and haunt us for years to come. Blair and Bush should be hung.
Another which is clear as day, the US don’t feel the repercussions of their adventures in the Middle East as we do in Europe.
It’s amazing how many yanks I’ve spoken to who think Ukraine has nothing to do with them, it’s a European problem and they should stay out of it, despite being a fundamental component of the whole thing.
I remember being furious at the US/UK over the Iraq War, Afghanistan to my mind was justified at the time but we knew that it was going to come back and haunt us for years to come. Blair and Bush should be hung.
Another which is clear as day, the US don’t feel the repercussions of their adventures in the Middle East as we do in Europe.
It’s amazing how many yanks I’ve spoken to who think Ukraine has nothing to do with them, it’s a European problem and they should stay out of it, despite being a fundamental component of the whole thing.
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Do you mean when Russia invades Ukraine, Finland, Poland and Germany?
Did you use a crystal ball for those, sheep entrails or time travel?
Which of those nations do you think Putin's Empire has not invaded and occupied in the past?
You mean Stalin some as part of the none aggression pact with Hitler and some that countries decided to divide in Germany.
You might try to get your history correct. Also consider the more recent addition - NATO which I will admit probably does have it's short comings which might cause some people to conclude that a specifically Europe one might have advantages. The USA contributes most to several organisations.
How many western countries have invaded Russia in the past.
Britain and America perhaps, not to mention Swedes, French, German.
D
Deleted member 174758
Gaddafi's principal foreign policy goals were Arab unity, elimination of Israel, advancement of Islam, support for Palestine, elimination of outside influence in the Middle East and Africa, and support for a range of "revolutionary" causes (Source: Wikipedia and others). To that end one of the organisations he funded was the IRA, you know the people who bombed the middle of Manchester in 1996, who killed innocent civilians in the Golden Square bombing in Warrington (1993), who massacred kids in the Tower of London (1874), etc. Look up the history of the MV Claudia for details of some of his support for the IRA
So saying that toppling his regime made things worse isn't really true
D
Deleted member 174758
You missed the biggest of them all, the Ottoman Empire, plus Ivan the Terrible's war against Sweden, various wars with Poland - which Russia and Prussia eventually dismembered, etc. Russia has been the aggressor as often as the victim, it seems
And why does Russia (or Putin) think it owns Ukraine now?
Ukraine fought a War of Independence against the Soviet Union from 1917 to 1921 to prevent themselves being subsumed by the Soviet Union at the end of which (after Soviet Russia defeated them) anyone connected with the short-lived Ukrainian People’s Republic was either imprisoned or deported to the gulags
Ukraine suffered the Holodomor in the 1932/33 during which between 2 and 4 million people starved to death under Stalin's regime - a regime which systematically siezed grain and food stocks and removed them from the country. This was genocide
Russian behaviour led to some Ukrainian nationalists supporting the Germans when they occupied the country in 1942. Subsequently some of these joined the German army. many ending up in France in 1944 where they mutinied, killed their German officers and joined the partisans. At the end of WWII many Ukrainians (both nationalists and former PoWs) were deported back from Germany and Austria to the Soviet Union who immediately shipped them to the gulags. Most never returned home
In 1944 Russia deported 190,000 Tatars from Crimea to Uzbekistan and repopiulated the area with ethnic Russians. Between 30 and 45% of the Tatars in this deportation died. In the same year they also deported other non-Slavic peoples living in Crimea - 12,000 Bulgarians, 14,000 Greeks and about 10,000 Armenians were expelled from their homes and sent to Central Asia against their will.
The Soviet Union periodically attempted to eradicate the Ukrainian language by restrictions on its' teaching or teachin subjects in Ukrainian, by paying teachers who taught in Russian higher salaries, etc.
Since 1991 Russia has continually interfered with the politics in an independent state
So stating what happened in previous centuries to Russia is no justification for its' current behaviour
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Which of these countries do you think Putin's Empire did not attack, invade, and occupy?
I have more, you know.
D
Deleted member 174758
How about Putin specifically? Georgia (2008), the Second Chechen War or his involvement in the Central African Republic? All since 2001
Go further back and since WWII there have been lots, as JohnD says
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You can’t mean Regan, you must be on about the orange idiot Trump.
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