Central Heating Installation

[Andy B 23]

Good evening

We are currently purchasing a 1960's 3 bed detached bungalow.

At the moment it is heated by a mix of old storage heaters & some much more modern electric style radiators made by Fischer.

The hot water is provided by an old copper emersion tank with a header tank in the loft. Electric Mira shower installed.

We are going to remove the old storage heaters as they are well past the point of no return.

We are going to see how the remaining Fischer heaters perform & cost to run, if acceptable may consider installing through out the property. Installing a solar system is also a possibility.

If we are to install more Fischer units we are looking to replace the existing hot water set up with an unvented cylinder, is this the right move?

If the electric heating does not work out we would look to install a combi boiler, any thoughts on boiler & rad sizes based on the floorplan & insulation in place?

Heating not required in the conservatory.

Located in South Devon so a mild climate, cavity wall insulation in place, 200 mm loft insulation, double glazed through out, solid concrete floors.

Thanks in advance.

 

[muggles]

Best thing you could do is rip out those Fischer heaters. Have a read of this Facebook page...

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Better off looking at either a central heating system, retrofit underfloor heating, or even air conditioning. Could be run from a heat pump if you go for one of the first two options - much cheaper to run than direct electric.

 

[ericmark]

Personally I would not want a un-vented cylinder as do not want to have to pay for the annual test.

As to central heating, gas or heat pump, it depends on house design and budget. Pipe sizes for heat pumps can be huge, and there are a load of silly rules to get grants, personally I want to be able to heat the house even if electric fails, so heat pumps are a non starter, as it stands, my solar and battery will likely run central heating and freezers even with no grid power.

So I will be sticking with oil fired central heating for as long as I can.

Last house we had a gas fire, also gas central heating, but no electric would mean no central heating, but the gas fire needed no electric to work.

In 1978/9 we lived in a house with hot air gas central heating, and it was darn cold, no electric = no central heating, and no chimney or flue, and single glazed floor to ceiling picture windows. never again do I want that. I see FP so assume fire place, so emergency heating seems covered.

Next is how much of the home needs heating and when? We use programmable TRV heads so only heat rooms when needed. So the buzz phrase is recovery time, how long to change a room from Eco setting to Comfort setting, this is where heat pumps and underfloor heating systems fall down, my wife can say "I think I will do some craft work after dinner" and turn on the TRV in craft room, and it is warm after dinner. Living room left to cool over night, etc. We are retired so want heat 24/7, but not in all rooms.

If we were out working, would not want home heated while at work, time the reheat and cool will have an impact as to what heating, our 20 kW oil boiler is enough to selective heat the house, would need to be larger if all rooms heated at same time from eco temperature. The problem with heat pumps they tend to run cooler than gas or oil, so bigger pipes, which will not allow standard TRV's to work.

 

[Andy B 23]

Best thing you could do is rip out those Fischer heaters. Have a read of this Facebook page...

Log in to Facebook

Log in to Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family and people you know.

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Better off looking at either a central heating system, retrofit underfloor heating, or even air conditioning. Could be run from a heat pump if you go for one of the first two options - much cheaper to run than direct electric.

Thanks Muggles, I note that Fischer are not the best company in the world.

The house already has a gas supply currently being used for the hob & gas fire in the lounge.

We will be looking at getting quotes for a central heating system, the boss is not a fan of underfloor heating so a traditional wet system with a combi will be the preferred option, this will then allow us to remove the old emersion tank.

Thankfully the winter in South Devon is a lot milder than we had in rural Yorkshire, temperatures of -5 were normal & in December 2010 we touched -15, moving to South Devon certainly saved us on the gas bill.

 

[Andy B 23]

Personally I would not want a un-vented cylinder as do not want to have to pay for the annual test.

As to central heating, gas or heat pump, it depends on house design and budget. Pipe sizes for heat pumps can be huge, and there are a load of silly rules to get grants, personally I want to be able to heat the house even if electric fails, so heat pumps are a non starter, as it stands, my solar and battery will likely run central heating and freezers even with no grid power.

So I will be sticking with oil fired central heating for as long as I can.

Last house we had a gas fire, also gas central heating, but no electric would mean no central heating, but the gas fire needed no electric to work.

In 1978/9 we lived in a house with hot air gas central heating, and it was darn cold, no electric = no central heating, and no chimney or flue, and single glazed floor to ceiling picture windows. never again do I want that. I see FP so assume fire place, so emergency heating seems covered.

Next is how much of the home needs heating and when? We use programmable TRV heads so only heat rooms when needed. So the buzz phrase is recovery time, how long to change a room from Eco setting to Comfort setting, this is where heat pumps and underfloor heating systems fall down, my wife can say "I think I will do some craft work after dinner" and turn on the TRV in craft room, and it is warm after dinner. Living room left to cool over night, etc. We are retired so want heat 24/7, but not in all rooms.

If we were out working, would not want home heated while at work, time the reheat and cool will have an impact as to what heating, our 20 kW oil boiler is enough to selective heat the house, would need to be larger if all rooms heated at same time from eco temperature. The problem with heat pumps they tend to run cooler than gas or oil, so bigger pipes, which will not allow standard TRV's to work.

Thanks Ericmark.

Noted re unvented cylinder.

We currently have a gas fire in the lounge.

We are at home as well during the day so selective heating would be our strategy as well.

We are going to get a quote for a traditional wet system with a combi which will allow us to remove the old emersion tank.

 

[ericmark]

which will allow us to remove the old emersion tank

I use the emersion heater, linked to solar panels, so my DHW is free, not sure that is the best way to go, at moment not paid for export so it is free, but if paid for export then costs the loss of export payment.

My battery is not quite big enough to use all solar 24/7, clearly batteries don't last for ever so I have looked at a 7 year life, so also use off peak electric, so battery also charged over night takes 1.5 hours to charge, I have off peak for 5 hours. So aim is to keep state of charge between 10 and 100% so only solar or off peak used.

So typical daily pattern.

The steep up is when charging fro, grid, the dip is time between off peak finishing and solar starting to charge, then nearly all covered by solar, then evening the battery discharges to 10% which is held for emergency use. I can only give bills since smart meter fitted, so Feb £82.50, March £67.18, April £60.27, May £43.12, June £38.19, July £41.71, this month to date £30.99 all include the standing charge. This is for a three story 5 bedroom house in Mid Wales so three freezers running. Once we sort out export payment then would be cheaper to run immersion on the night tariff (8.95p per kWh) but at moment using a iboost+ so only heats water with immersion heater when exporting at over 200 watt.

I am not saying you want solar now, but once that tank is gone, then harder to get it replaced. Pre-solar we were paying £173.90 a month, idea was summer was over payment and winter under payment. Without payment for export solar will take a long time to get money back, once export payment sorted then we will gain, but one of the reasons for solar, is we now have central heating even without grid power.

Consider what you may get in the future before getting you new central heating, and how they will work together.

 

[fixitflav]

We are going to get a quote for a traditional wet system with a combi which will allow us to remove the old emersion tank.

I'd think twice before going for a combi. More pros than cons IMO. Plenty of discussion of the subject on this site.

 

[denso13]

we would look to install a combi boiler

More than adequate when looking at your floor plan, minimal hot water requirements.

 

[cross thread]

Combi all the way, try and fit near to hot water outlets to minimise waster

 

[Andy B 23]

I use the emersion heater, linked to solar panels, so my DHW is free, not sure that is the best way to go, at moment not paid for export so it is free, but if paid for export then costs the loss of export payment.

My battery is not quite big enough to use all solar 24/7, clearly batteries don't last for ever so I have looked at a 7 year life, so also use off peak electric, so battery also charged over night takes 1.5 hours to charge, I have off peak for 5 hours. So aim is to keep state of charge between 10 and 100% so only solar or off peak used.

So typical daily pattern.
View attachment 353084
The steep up is when charging fro, grid, the dip is time between off peak finishing and solar starting to charge, then nearly all covered by solar, then evening the battery discharges to 10% which is held for emergency use. I can only give bills since smart meter fitted, so Feb £82.50, March £67.18, April £60.27, May £43.12, June £38.19, July £41.71, this month to date £30.99 all include the standing charge. This is for a three story 5 bedroom house in Mid Wales so three freezers running. Once we sort out export payment then would be cheaper to run immersion on the night tariff (8.95p per kWh) but at moment using a iboost+ so only heats water with immersion heater when exporting at over 200 watt.

I am not saying you want solar now, but once that tank is gone, then harder to get it replaced. Pre-solar we were paying £173.90 a month, idea was summer was over payment and winter under payment. Without payment for export solar will take a long time to get money back, once export payment sorted then we will gain, but one of the reasons for solar, is we now have central heating even without grid power.

Consider what you may get in the future before getting you new central heating, and how they will work together.

I use the emersion heater, linked to solar panels, so my DHW is free, not sure that is the best way to go, at moment not paid for export so it is free, but if paid for export then costs the loss of export payment.

My battery is not quite big enough to use all solar 24/7, clearly batteries don't last for ever so I have looked at a 7 year life, so also use off peak electric, so battery also charged over night takes 1.5 hours to charge, I have off peak for 5 hours. So aim is to keep state of charge between 10 and 100% so only solar or off peak used.

So typical daily pattern.
View attachment 353084
The steep up is when charging fro, grid, the dip is time between off peak finishing and solar starting to charge, then nearly all covered by solar, then evening the battery discharges to 10% which is held for emergency use. I can only give bills since smart meter fitted, so Feb £82.50, March £67.18, April £60.27, May £43.12, June £38.19, July £41.71, this month to date £30.99 all include the standing charge. This is for a three story 5 bedroom house in Mid Wales so three freezers running. Once we sort out export payment then would be cheaper to run immersion on the night tariff (8.95p per kWh) but at moment using a iboost+ so only heats water with immersion heater when exporting at over 200 watt.

I am not saying you want solar now, but once that tank is gone, then harder to get it replaced. Pre-solar we were paying £173.90 a month, idea was summer was over payment and winter under payment. Without payment for export solar will take a long time to get money back, once export payment sorted then we will gain, but one of the reasons for solar, is we now have central heating even without grid power.

Consider what you may get in the future before getting you new central heating, and how they will work together.

Thanks Ericmark.

Lots to think about when we move, definitely looking into solar as a serious option.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The house already has a gas supply currently being used for the hob & gas fire in the lounge.

Whatever, keep the gas fire and hob, even if just for a backup..