Dilemma - Builder - Extension...

[John Smith Esq.]

Hi all,

I have planning permission for a house extension. I have selected a builder, and we plan to start work in about 4 weeks' time. Building certificate application will be going in soon and the ludicrous fee paid...

The guy I am using is somebody I know. He is a one man band but very good and experienced. The price is decent, especially as he is not VAT registered.

The other day, I told one of the other builders I got a quote from - who would otherwise be the favourite as he is excellent, a master builder, done good work around here - that I have decided to go with somebody else. I told him this because he said he needed to plan his work and I thought I should just be straight and honest with him. He was quite annoyed in the messages I got back. Said he had put a lot of time into the quote, asked me about who the other builder is and the price. I explained that he was my preferred option and that I appreciate his efforts but there is over a £15K price difference and besides affordability, it has to be the right price in case I ever needed to sell up and recoup my investment. The conversation ended when I explained that the other guy isn't VAT registered so perhaps he realised he cannot compete with that quote.

Anyway, literally 24 hours or so later, the guy who I have chosen, who is supposed to be doing some other work here in the next week or so, has developed a health problem. It's a blood clot in his leg. Caused a load of swelling. He's had one before - on his brain - but luckily survived it. I feel sorry for him, and hope he will be ok, but on a purely selfish angle, my partner is pregnant with our first child and I need this project to go ahead soon, be relatively straight forward, and to be complete by the summer.

I would be happy to continue with the builder I chose - great price, trust his competence - but am now wondering if he could do without the stress of doing this project. Also, if he ends up being unable to work for a while or needs an operation, even gets laid low during the project - my problem might not be delays starting, but being stuck with a big mess. And if he wasn't able to finish it after starting, would other builders want to take it on then..?

It's feeling a bit risky. Trouble is, I've also possibly burnt bridges with the other builder.

What would you do?

I could tell the guy with health issues it is best for him and me if I find somebody else. Then go back to the other guy, apologise for messing about, see if he can do anything on price and then see if he will do it? If he could make it a bit cheaper somehow I could just raise the extra money and at least with him I know I won't have anything to worry about.

Thoughts?

Other option is to cut my losses, don't waste my money on the building certificate and maybe just move house in a couple of years to something bigger. We do like it here though and moving house is probably going to cost 15K in taxes and fees. Plus the house market is utter **** so will we find anything we like that isn't riddled with issues? It's a shame that the VAT rate is so punitive. 20% on a big project like this is a disgusting amount of money when I've already been taxed on my income.

 

[aveatry]

The other day, I told one of the other builders I got a quote from - who would otherwise be the favourite as he is excellent, a master builder, done good work around here - that I have decided to go with somebody else. I told him this because he said he needed to plan his work and I thought I should just be straight and honest with him. He was quite annoyed in the messages I got back. Said he had put a lot of time into the quote, asked me about who the other builder is and the price.

There is no way I would be going with this builder after that. He has proved himself to be a bit of a nasty piece of work IMO. What would of been so wrong for him to just say Ok thanks for considering me.
As for the bloke you were going to use then have an honest conversation with him about his health and ability to carry out and complete the job. I doubt that he does it all personally himself anyway so he must have trades people that he uses. What is the job.

 

[John Smith Esq.]

It is a single storey side extension, around 24 sq.m, small utility and entrance, WC and dining room - under a hipped roof.

Just in case I've given a misleading impression - he wasn't abusive or anything, but said he was disappointed considering the time and effort he had put in and asked what the price difference was. The response you've suggested would have been more typical I agree, but does this change your view? It was more disappointment.

The guy with health problem, yes, he would be using electrician and plumber but everything else he does himself. Even plastering.

I could do with speaking with him today but don't want to be pushy whilst he was in hospital only last night. Trouble is, I'm at a critical juncture where I need to act if there are doubts about him being able to get the job done well and in a timely fashion. Loads of things I need to get on with like getting shut of existing garage, removing a wall and all sorts - then again, don't want to do these things and then find none of it can go ahead!

 

[aveatry]

It is a single storey side extension, around 24 sq.m, small utility and entrance, WC and dining room - under a hipped roof.

Just in case I've given a misleading impression - he wasn't abusive or anything, but said he was disappointed considering the time and effort he had put in and asked what the price difference was. The response you've suggested would have been more typical I agree, but does this change your view? It was more disappointment.

Ok so not a small job really.
But even the toned down response would be a red flag to me I'm afraid. What is he going to be like if you have a dispute of some sort during the build.

 

[Old Salt]

It might pile more stress on him if he loses an income he was expecting. Have a conversation around is he feeling okay and up to the work, if not you will understand and can try to make alternative arrangements. In my experience builders rarely start on time, finish on time or turn up when agreed.

Waits for incoming

 

[John Smith Esq.]

Ok so not a small job really.
But even the toned down response would be a red flag to me I'm afraid. What is he going to be like if you have a dispute of some sort during the build.

He might be a touch abrasive but he is very good and reputable. The building control people know and respect him. I'd probably need to watch him less than others. I do appreciate your point though.

And you're right that an honest conversation with the guy I've chosen is needed.

 

[John Smith Esq.]

It might pile more stress on him if he loses an income he was expecting. Have a conversation around is he feeling okay and up to the work, if not you will understand and can try to make alternative arrangements. In my experience builders rarely start on time, finish on time or turn up when agreed.

Waits for incoming

I think that's a good way of putting it across.

It seems that with blood clots (DVT) medication can take care of it and people are encouraged to stay active. That said, he had a serious clot ten years ago so maybe they'll want to operate on him as that is also an option. This is where my project timing could go pear shaped. Also, it's whether he ends up being in denial about what he can do or he has complications later leaving me with a disaster to sort out. Will builders want to come in and rescue me when the foundations are already down? Could be very costly. Which is why I might be better off, very reluctantly, making a ruthless decision.

 

[aveatry]

He might be a touch abrasive

Have you read what gos on in the general thread !!!!!!!

 

[aveatry]

In my experience builders rarely start on time, finish on time or turn up when agreed.

This part of what I was thinking about when I said disputes

 

[aveatry]

The building control people know and respect him. I'd probably need to watch him less than others.

If you had of said that from the start then I would not of been so judgemental I think. I appreciate you cannot put every detail in a single post. He is beginning to sound ok now.
A odd he was upset about all the work he put into the quote but didn’t get the job, you gotta put in some work to come up with a quote - haven’t you ?
Its just that I have had a build and some I didnt want to go with
because I didn’t like the way they sounded and their general attitude.

 

[Murdochcat]

The reality at the moment is that lots of trades are short of work.

Avoid people trying to give silly discounts AND make sure you know what is included and what isn’t or the extras will keep on coming

As for the BC application - this is your insurance policy so money well spent as they are there to check at key stages and sign out of in the end. Avoid self certified inspectors is my advice

 

[John Smith Esq.]

Thanks for the responses.

I've messaged the builder who I instructed along the lines of the above, checking if he is still up to it. Drawing attention to my time scales and that I'd understand if it would be too much of a strain for him. So I have given him a way out if he wants it.

He has responded to say that his health will be uncertain in the coming months but he still has his mind set on doing my project and that he doesn't want me getting another builder last minute who might make a hash of it. He said he will take it steady at first and might get a second pair of hands to help him with the donkey work.

This is positive and nice of him, and he obviously wants to do the job mentally, but I think this still seems uncertain and I need this job done and done well, and on time. I don't feel particularly reassured that he will actually be able to do it. I also wonder if this slows down but with adder labour does it affect the price.

I think I might need to go back to the other guy and see if he is willing to discuss knocking some money off and explain what has happened. But I probably only have one chance with him before bridges are certainly being burnt.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I think I might need to go back to the other guy and see if he is willing to discuss knocking some money off and explain what has happened.

That will not end well.

 

[John Smith Esq.]

That will not end well.

Why?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Why should he knock any money off?