Shower Isolator

[SUNRAY]

I've just heard from a colleague who was tasked a short while ago to isolate and make safe after:

A log cabin beside an outdoor pool AKA changing room, A property I know having dealt with the pool plant. Customer was away on holiday when the fire started.

The Fire Brigade report indicates the root of the fire being the Electric shower heater. The insurance report (presumably the loss inspector or whatever current title is) established there is no local isolator, Apparently the MI for the particular product - I know not which make/model - instructs to fit an isolator and to isolate when not in use.
Guess what the loss adjustors conclusion is.

Fortunately this was a log cabin with a hedge running away from it so the total loss and the houses plastic window and gutters heat damage is no major catastrophe as I understand it.

 

[morqthana]

Apparently the MI for the particular product - I know not which make/model - instructs to fit an isolator and to isolate when not in use.

I can think of no other conclusion to draw from that other than the maker knows his product is so flaky that it may burst into flames when not in use if left powered up.

On the assumption that someone who has a swimming pool, with plant, and a fully-serviced changing room, has a bit of spare cash, I'd suggest he looks into suing the maker on that basis.

 

[SUNRAY]

I can think of no other conclusion to draw from that other than the maker knows his product is so flaky that it may burst into flames when not in use if left powered up.

In my experience I think every different shower heater (and for that matter every heating device) has very similar wording in their instructions... are you saying they are all so flakey they are likely to burst into flames when not in use?

On the assumption that someone who has a swimming pool, with plant, and a fully-serviced changing room, has a bit of spare cash, I'd suggest he looks into suing the maker on that basis.

For all I know they may, however the manufacturers legal team may simply sit back after reading the instructions and come to the same conclusion as the insurance service. If legal action were to be taken I believe the man in the big chair may read the same set of instructions and ask the question; Would this have caught fire if the isolator was fitted and opened? I can't think of any expert who could possibly answer 'Yes'.

Can you?​

If legal action were to be taken I doubt it would be against the manufacturer or supplier, I can only think it has to be against the installer for ignoring the instructions supplied with the heater.

Knowing how good their documentation regarding the pool plant is I assume they may also have the original documentation supplied with the heater on file to read for themselves.


The whole point about any such devices is they can and do develope faults, for that reason I have standardised on which shower heaters I have in all of my properties and keep spares in stock for when they do.
For some strange reason they don't last as long in rental properties as they do at home

 

[morqthana]

In my experience I think every different shower heater (and for that matter every heating device) has very similar wording in their instructions... are you saying they are all so flakey they are likely to burst into flames when not in use?

What other reason could there possibly be for the makers mandating that they never be left connected to the power when unattended?

For all I know they may, however the manufacturers legal team may simply sit back after reading the instructions and come to the same conclusion as the insurance service. If legal action were to be taken I believe the man in the big chair may read the same set of instructions and ask the question; Would this have caught fire if the isolator was fitted and opened? I can't think of any expert who could possibly answer 'Yes'.

Can you?​

No, but I can envisage counsel pressing the manufacturer really hard on why his product should catch fire if left connected when not in use, and asking them if it is not the case that they know it might, which is why they mandate that it not be left connected, and if they say no to that then ask well then why do you make it compulsory for it to be isolated when not in use if there is no danger in doing so?

If legal action were to be taken I doubt it would be against the manufacturer or supplier, I can only think it has to be against the installer for ignoring the instructions supplied with the heater.

If that's an option then he should go for it. Let the installer's insurance pay.

The whole point about any such devices is they can and do develope faults,

Do they spontaneously combust when not in use?

 

[endecotp]

Apparently the MI for the particular product - I know not which make/model - instructs to fit an isolator and to isolate when not in use.

The instructions for the Mira that I fitted a few weeks ago say that an isolator is required, and that it should be turned off when the shower is not in use. And then the bit that surprised me was that they qualify that with “like all other electrical appliances”. I interpreted that as meaning, ‘“if you turn off your TV at the socket when you’re not using it, then you’ll want to turn this shower off too”. I.e. normal people should just leave it turned on.

 

[SUNRAY]

If that's an option then he should go for it. Let the installer's insurance pay.


Do they spontaneously combust when not in use?

I'll ingore the rest. None of mine have ever caught fire and the above example is the closest experience of such I've encountered so no I don't believe it is a common occurrence.
The closest I personally have encountered has been when turning a very early example off and a plastic moulded part broke, leaving the pressure switch activated. With no cold water flowing into the heater vessel it started getting very hot and very quickly. The expanding hot water obviously being expelled until the thermostat and the safety cut out tripped.
They are constructed very differently now. But I'm not silly enough to think faults don't or can't occur

 

[SUNRAY]

The instructions for the Mira that I fitted a few weeks ago say that an isolator is required, and that it should be turned off when the shower is not in use.

Thank you for confirming my previous comment, that is the bit that will sail through any claims under the circumstances described.

And then the bit that surprised me was that they qualify that with “like all other electrical appliances”.

That's not something I'm familiar with, what model is this?

I interpreted that as meaning, ‘“if you turn off your TV at the socket when you’re not using it,

I take it you don't remember the TV safety campaigns where it showed the presenter doing just that, oh and yes we do power down our TVs, we see no reason to leave them in standby. In fact we leave very little on standby.

 

[endecotp]

https://techcomm.kohler.com/techcomm/pdf/1490289-W2-B%20Mira%20Jump_Sprint%20Installation%20&%20User%20Guide.pdf

Page 4:

18. Switch off the shower at the electrical isolating switch when not in use. This is recommended with all electrical appliances.

Do you turn your TV off at the socket (“isolator”), or its own on/off switch?

 

[EFLImpudence]

So - can a manufacturer just say "anything" and it then becomes gospel?

I think manufacturers more often than not just quote what they think are the electrical regulations which apply to their product.

It is odd how the Wiring Regulations do not call for local isolation for any domestic appliance and only recently downgraded the need to blindly follow the manufacturers' instructions.

 

[EFLImpudence]

As demonstrated on page 3 by:

9. This shower must be provided with means for local disconnection that is incorporated into the fixed wiring in accordance with the relevant local wiring regulations. This must be a double pole switch, which has at least 3 mm contact separation in each pole. The switch can be a ceiling mounted pull-cord type within the shower room or a wall mounted switch fitted in the applicable zone area.

 

[SUNRAY]

https://techcomm.kohler.com/techcomm/pdf/1490289-W2-B%20Mira%20Jump_Sprint%20Installation%20&%20User%20Guide.pdf

Page 4:

18. Switch off the shower at the electrical isolating switch when not in use. This is recommended with all electrical appliances.

Thank you and yes it's good advise.

Do you turn your TV off at the socket (“isolator”), or its own on/off switch?

I'm happy with the physical switch if it has one or wall if only a standby operation.

I believe the major point about showers is many of them rely purely on the pressure switch to energise the element