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Solar panels and hot water

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Hello everyone, we were wondering to install solar panels, but we have come across different articles saying solar panels are able to heat the hot water. Could someone tell me how this is achieved? I'm not sure if I will be wanting a large hot cylinder on top of my roof, or am I being cynical? I think the sun will be shining on the cylinder, heating up the water inside it, and by gravity water will fall down to the showers/taps? That is how most gravity heating systems work, don't they?

Thank you.
 
For a direct water system, it needs pumps, and sensors, my father-in-law had it installed in North Wales, it never worked, my daughter had it in Turkey and it worked fine.

However, my domestic hot water (DHW) is heated with solar, this uses electric solar panels, which feed into an inverter, which in turns charges a battery, and feeds the house, and if there is excess, then a CT coil that detects I am exporting, and heats the DHW instead, using the immersion heater.

To be frank, since I pay 8.5p/kWh for import, and get paid 15p/kWh for export, I would be better off with a simple time switch.
 
The idea was it heated a coil in the bottom of the cylinder, my father in law thought it was working well, until smart meter fitted, and pilot flame went out, then realised the gas boiler doing all the heating. We tried to get it fixed, but 6 months later he died so house sold still not fixed.
 
1980's solar panels had water flowing inside them, which heated a cylinder in the loft. I think they only worked well for the 2 hours of mid day sun.

These days most solar panels (PV) produce electricity. If there is excess electricity you can
1) Put it into battery storage if you have batteries (we are talking something the area a bike would take up)
2) Sell it to the GRID FIT Feed in Tariff
3) Run your immersion heater. (if you have a hot water cylinder)
4) Charge your elec car if home during the day

Just depends what is most profitable, and it is worth having all the control boxes (cost) to do all that
 
The electric solar panels from early 2023 needed a smart meter to be paid for export, and if not buying from same billing agent can be around 4p/kWh but if also buy then can be as high as 15p/kWh even higher 4 pm to 7 pm, but also the peak tariff can be high, so needs a lot of thought.
 
1980's solar panels had water flowing inside them, which heated a cylinder in the loft. I think they only worked well for the 2 hours of mid day sun.

Define "well" in N. Wales...
 
I was repeatedly surprised by the temperature the solar thermal systems at C.A.T. produced in Wales...

Solar thermal is a lot more efficient than solar PV, BUT it needs maintenance, fiddling about with, grumpling and is generally quite a demanding toddler of a system - as far as I know, very few people are fitting them these days.

Solar PV with a diverter to feed the immersion heater is less efficient but is pretty much fit and forget.
The economics of it, however, make it almost always not worth it - you can almost always make more money by exporting that solar electricity than you would save by using it to heat water.

...and there's the £500 or so for a solar diverter

....Though I think there are some unusual situations where it might make sense - for example; if you're still on a high deemed export tariff, if your other ways of heating water are really expensive, if you're not getting paid for export, if you really don't care about the money and just want to feel smug about heating your water via solar...
 
I've always used solar power to heat my water for shower or washing while camping. Essentially a poly bag one side clear & tother black - fill with water and lay on ground black side down... Even worked in Wales.

Also fill 4 pint milk bottles and leave on top of the dark coloured dashboard
 
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Hello everyone, we were wondering to install solar panels, but we have come across different articles saying solar panels are able to heat the hot water. Could someone tell me how this is achieved? I'm not sure if I will be wanting a large hot cylinder on top of my roof, or am I being cynical? I think the sun will be shining on the cylinder, heating up the water inside it, and by gravity water will fall down to the showers/taps? That is how most gravity heating systems work, don't they?

Thank you.
two diff types, as discussed above there is Solar PV that makes electric which you could use to power the immersion heater, but wiser to export and use much cheaper gas

Then there is the liquid filled solar panels (a strong antifreeze liquid) this is pumped through a heat exchanger in your hot water tank, super efficient, works well when the sun is shining, autumn spring ansd summer.
But you need a specialist HW tank that has the heat exchanger built in - it would never be worth it to change a HW tank for this reason, but on a new build, or if you had to take the old HW tank out for other reasons, then yes it could be worth while considering - they produce huge amounts of hot water.
 
My daughter's house, in Turkey, has a flat roof with easy access, and there is no question the solar panels to heat DHW work well. When C.A.T. was open, they had an array of solar panels they had tried, and the homemade one, a radiator painted black under a double-glazed window unit, was doing as well as the commercial units. And they had some success, and also a lot of failures, this back in the 80s when we had not developed the PV solar panels.

Trying to keep heat in tanks and pipes is not easy. My immersion heater and tank were not very well insulated, and the iboost+ showed how much energy used to keep it hot for the week. Tank before lagged.jpgTank after lagging.jpg I put more insulation as shown, it did not help as much as expected, clearly water also used, but 16 kWh to 13 kWh is not much of a reduction, so the extra insulation will take years to pay for its self, but the electric v oil was also a surprise, 16 kWh electric v 30 kWh for oil, clearly the losses with pipework and boiler.

So let us look at the facts, it costs for handwashing extra, no baths or showers, around 15 kWh per week to keep the water hot. Unless you have an intelligent system, where the energy provider takes control of the EV charging and solar panels, here in Wales we can pay between 8.5p to 40p per kWh to buy electric. And we can sell it for between 4.5p and 30p per kWh. This is a huge difference, and not talking about those who get a historical high rate, or those who have not submitted the correct paperwork so get zero for export.

So at 23.86p/kWh which is Octopus base rate, with no peak or off-peak, we are looking at £186 per year to heat DHW. At 8.5p/kWh that drops to £66 and the difference is £120, so all our efforts can likely save us £100 a year. The question is, if worth the effort?

And with government incentives, and energy prices changing so often, the do your maths does not work, as in 5 years time, it all may have changed.

However, government incentives tend to have strings. Like to get the cheap solar panels, you must also have a unidirectional heat pump, I can see the sense for one system to heat and cool, but if we have globule warming, heat pumps which can only heat the house is daft. And often the solar panels are that small, with no battery, hardly worth having.

The problem is we get someone like me, with 6 kW of solar panels and a 5 kW inverter, with a 6.4 kWh battery, who has found the solar panels do pay, and likely payback time is 5 to 7 years, advising someone with 2.5 kW of panels and no battery, who in real terms has a white elephant, as they are two small to work with.

In the main, energy hungry equipment uses 3 kW, as this is the limit for a 13 amp plug, and we have a back-ground leakage/usage for items like freezers, so the system needs to be able to supply 4 kW, so minium battery size is around the 4 kWh mark.

I can produce 5 kW, although solar panels are 6 kW, the inverter is only 5 kW, I will be using some, but want the battery to accept around 4 kW, otherwise exporting when batteries are not fully charged.

But what one does with a 2.5 kW array, not sure.
 

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