Should a boiler be classified as ID/AR for low gas rate/pressure?

[MrRetiredEng]

Hello,

A boiler was given a ID because "gas rate failed" and "pressure at appliance failed". However, the guy who performed the tests signed the Responsible Person/Gas User box and not the Gas Safe Engineer's box, and vise versa, so I'm not even sure the paperwork is valid.

In any case, looking at IGEM/G/11 Edition 2 the only item that seems relevant is 7.7: "Flueless or flued appliance with visual signs of incomplete combustion at a main burner and/or within the heat exchanger: 2. Flued appliance AR.

As far as I can see, there were no signs of incomplete combustion and the boiler flame has never gone out, and has been running quite well for the last 10 years.

Should a boiler be given ID/AR for these reasons. What is the justification based on GEM/G/11 and/or common sense?

Lastly, it's a system boiler, and he had the hot water tap running continuously when taking measurements. The hot water cylinder was full of hot water as it was early morning and I hadn't had a shower. Wouldn't the hot tap be turned on for combi boilers only?

Many thanks.

 

[gas112]

Hello,

A boiler was given a ID because "gas rate failed" and "pressure at appliance failed". However, the guy who performed the tests signed the Responsible Person/Gas User box and not the Gas Safe Engineer's box, and vise versa, so I'm not even sure the paperwork is valid.

In any case, looking at IGEM/G/11 Edition 2 the only item that seems relevant is 7.7: "Flueless or flued appliance with visual signs of incomplete combustion at a main burner and/or within the heat exchanger: 2. Flued appliance AR.

As far as I can see, there were no signs of incomplete combustion and the boiler flame has never gone out, and has been running quite well for the last 10 years.

Should a boiler be given ID/AR for these reasons. What is the justification based on GEM/G/11 and/or common sense?

Lastly, it's a system boiler, and he had the hot water tap running continuously when taking measurements. The hot water cylinder was full of hot water as it was early morning and I hadn't had a shower. Wouldn't the hot tap be turned on for combi boilers only?

Many thanks.

Failed in what way did he put working pressure and gas rate and flue gas analyser readings on the warning label....what make and model of boiler is it. Why didn't he turn heating on to get his readings ? . Turning hot tap on with a cylinder already satisfied would need a good few minutes too cool down enough for cylinder stat to operate and give a demand . Sounds very strange

 

[MrRetiredEng]

Failed in what way did he put working pressure and gas rate and flue gas analyser readings on the warning label....what make and model of boiler is it. Why didn't he turn heating on to get his readings ? . Turning hot tap on with a cylinder already satisfied would need a good few minutes too cool down enough for cylinder stat to operate and give a demand . Sounds very strange

No readings were provided on the paperwork. I was told that its gas rate was too low and therefore it was dangerous. I did query but told it would need replacing. It's a Potterton Suprima. Could this be fixed by either adjusting the gas pressure adjuster, and or cleaning the burner?

 

[MrRetiredEng]

I would have though that if there was a problem with the flue gas then the report would state: "incomplete combustion" etc. rather than "gas rate failed".

 

[CountryFan]

3.4 of igem document is ID but would need to see incomplete combustion and then there's a section of failure to achieve satisfactory flue analyser results. Ideally you would need him to confirm the gas rate and the working pressure at the boiler result, as per @gas112 , not just failed.

 

[gas112]

3.4 of igem document is ID but would need to see incomplete combustion and then there's a section of failure to achieve satisfactory flue analyser results. Ideally you would need him to confirm the gas rate and the working pressure at the boiler result, as per @gas112 , not just failed.

Yep there has to be clear evidence to ID it . The running of the tap is certainly a strange one.

 

[MrRetiredEng]

Thanks, for the responses.

https://shieldheating.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/tb-141-gas-rating-of-domestic-boilers-acceptabletolerances.pdf

I note from TB141 it says the following. But, even if it's out of tolerance, would this be an AR or a NCS?

 

[fixitflav]

The running of the tap is certainly a strange one.

Sounds like he didn't know how the system works

 

[CountryFan]

The running of the tap is certainly a strange one.

Maybe a combi slinger or poke and go on autopilot for combi boiler?

 

[CountryFan]

Thanks, for the responses.

https://shieldheating.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/tb-141-gas-rating-of-domestic-boilers-acceptabletolerances.pdf

I note from TB141 it says the following. But, even if it's out of tolerance, would this be an AR or a NCS?
View attachment 394865

I think it's just NCS unless it's affecting the combustion performance. Combi boilers can work down to a minimum, but some take this value as being acceptable for an installation

 

[Justin Passing]

It's a stretch but if say the meter governor had collapsed and the boiler were barely working due to lack of gas which he could see, he wouldn't have needed to measure anything. That doesn't cover all he did/didn't do though!

 

[dilalio]

It's a stretch but if say the meter governor had collapsed and the boiler were barely working due to lack of gas which he could see, he wouldn't have needed to measure anything. That doesn't cover all he did/didn't do though!

Gas Safe continuously tell us "you're the engineer on site" so, ultimately, it's down to what he/she decided when there.

This should need backing up with readings entered onto the notice and, as always, permission must me asked before capping/turning off an appliance.

Was this an engineer from a large national service company?

Your best bet is to get someone else in, who is independent.

 

[gas112]

It's a stretch but if say the meter governor had collapsed and the boiler were barely working due to lack of gas which he could see, he wouldn't have needed to measure anything. That doesn't cover all he did/didn't do though!

did he use his x ray eyes to see through the boiler casing .
if you are ID ing something because you think its not right you need the figures and readings to confirm it.
Meter governor knackered takes less than 30 seconds to confirm with a working pressure test and if you found that you would be contacting the ESP after putting that on the warning label .

 

[dilalio]

"with permission"

That's how much we are regulated!

However, there are consequences for the occupant/responsible person should permission not be granted!

 

[gas112]

"with permission"

That's how much we are regulated!

However, there are consequences for the occupant/responsible person should permission not be granted!

amazing how quickly they gave permission when we turned up and said sorry cutting you off in the street now and its going to cost you at least 1k to get turned back on .