Hive or Worcester Bosch Easy wireless control.

[jonm01]

New install of worcester bosch 4000 combi. Would there be any preference in using Hive, compared to worcester bosch easy control ?

 

[CountryFan]

Depends on what you want. Most manufacturers controls are designed to work better for the boiler, rather than on/off standard like Hive.

 

[ericmark]

I am an electrician, not a plumber, but last time I looked at the Bosch system it was only monitoring one room, where as Wiser, Tado, EvoHome, and Hive, link in some way to the TRV head, so monitor multi-rooms. I use Wiser, but much depends on the home's design, my last house was open plan, and one central thermostat was fine, this one I have four devices which can start the boiler.

 

[CountryFan]

I am an electrician, not a plumber, but last time I looked at the Bosch system it was only monitoring one room, where as Wiser, Tado, EvoHome, and Hive, link in some way to the TRV head, so monitor multi-rooms. I use Wiser, but much depends on the home's design, my last house was open plan, and one central thermostat was fine, this one I have four devices which can start the boiler.

Most room thermostats monitor one room, hence the name, it’s when you add “smart” controls such as a hub system like smart TRVs. Standard TRVs are just that, standard but have been working ok for the last 30+ years.

 

[ericmark]

Standard TRVs are just that, standard

I have a whole range of TRV heads. The flat are mechanical and just stop rooms over heating, the main house has 5 bluetooth heads, eQ-3, which are programmable, and can detect window open, but do not connect to any hub, the Energenie and Kasa heads are again programmable but connect to a hub, so can use geo-fencing, the Energenie can't be programmed without the hub and internet, but the Kasa can be manually set, however the Kasa batteries don't last too well. Then the is one odd one out, the Wiser head, this is the only head I would label as smart, as it is claimed to work out how long it takes to heat the room, and start heating it that much before the setting change for a higher room temperature, in theory all the heads which connect to a hub, could fire the boiler, but only the Wiser hub is connected to the boiler. So of the 10 programmable heads, only one would be considered as smart.

The main advantage with the electronic head, is the setting are in degrees C not silly *123456, so the scale makes some sense, the next is that the temperature setting changes with the time of day, the Wi-Fi models show both target and current so can be used to set the lock shield valve, and the bluetooth models detect sudden drop in temperature and assume a window or door is open, and can shut off for a set time. The Kasa and Wiser produce a graph to show room temperature, the Energenie can't be set without the computer, tablet or phone, the rest will not work with a computer without an emulator.

Price, the eQ-3 we £15 each in 2019, the Energenie only sold in pairs, seem to remember around £65 a pair, which is why when one was damaged it was replaced with Kasa, around same price but could buy one, and the hub doubled as a doorbell, the Wiser also needs a hub, but unlike the other two, this hub connects to the boiler, so the TRV can fire the boiler, we also have a wall thermostat which connects to Wiser hub, which is in parallel with the Nest Gen 3 hub, so three devices can fire the boiler to heat upstairs, plus a very old thermostat in the flat.

The Nest Gen 3 thermostat is considered smart, as that can also remember your settings, and work out a schedule, but it worked out such a daft schedule, that in real terms unusable. My boiler does not have e-bus so all simple on/off control with thermostats. If using a boiler with OpenTherm or one which can use a converter to OpenTherm then the Wiser and Nest thermostats are working in smart mode, but of the 10 electronic TRV heads I have fitted, only the Wiser one would I call smart.

I know the early Hive TRV heads demand for heat would only be accepted if the wall thermostat was recording under 22°C, as to if that is still the case I don't know, the new Hive will work with OpenTherm, but Bosch will not, so can't be used, as to how much that helps I don't know.

 

[jonm01]

Thanks for the replies and information. Hive seems to be favoured by most installers? Hive is completely wireless i think, the Easy control seems, possibly to require a 2 core connection to the boiler, or, at least, mains power pack.

 

[CountryFan]

Hive seems to be favoured by most installers?

Seems a lot do like it

Hive is completely wireless i think

Yes it is

, the Easy control seems, possibly to require a 2 core connection to the boiler, or, at least, mains power pack.

Yes it may do as it'll probably run EMS, which is similar to ebus and opentherm, just their version I think

 

[ericmark]

Yes it may doas it'll probably run EMS, which is similar to ebus and opentherm, just their version I think

I did look some years ago, and the option seemed to be Bosch single thermostat for whole house, or third party thermostat for each room, in my old house a single thermostat would work fine (Open Plan) this house needs multi-thermostats. Be it wall or built into the radiator control does not really matter, but one thermostat for all would not work.

I have looked at different control methods, but as to how to integrate with different boilers, not so sure, last house radiator output was controlled by fan speed, not by a TRV, it worked well with an old non modulating boiler, not sure how it would work with a modern boiler.

The Myson ivector looks good, but the building management system was so expensive, not really going to be fitted in domestic buildings. And this is the problem, there are some really good systems, but also some silly prices to have them installed.

 

[snb]

With a 4000 Bosch go with easy control. Use the wireless plug in adapter) plugs straight into boiler. Full weather comp control of boiler and you can add smart rad stats if you want to each room for full independent control

 

[jonm01]

Ok thanks for the advice. Is it actually totally wireless?

 

[trojanhawrs]

Ok thanks for the advice. Is it actually totally wireless?

All wireless thermostats are wireless in the sense that you can move the thermostat around to wherever you want it to measure the temperature, but the receiver unit still needs wired into the boiler to tell it when to run.
A Bosch specific thermostat is going to give the boiler ability to modulate, a third party one like hive won't - if that matters to you.

 

[mxo]

I have the same question - getting a Worcester Bosch 4000 combi installed. I have an existing Drayton smart thermostat, which has worked well with the old (non-Opentherm) boiler.

Given the Bosch 4000 doesn't support OpenTherm either, hence no modulation from the smart thermostat - is this really a big deal, in terms of efficency/savings? This is for a flat with no radiator TRVs.

I also read that the boiler itself will still do some modulation, regardless of the smart thermostat?

 

[trojanhawrs]

I have the same question - getting a Worcester Bosch 4000 combi installed. I have an existing Drayton smart thermostat, which has worked well with the old (non-Opentherm) boiler.

Given the Bosch 4000 doesn't support OpenTherm either, hence no modulation from the smart thermostat - is this really a big deal, in terms of efficency/savings? This is for a flat with no radiator TRVs.

I also read that the boiler itself will still do some modulation, regardless of the smart thermostat?

The way I understand it, the boiler will modulate to maintain flow temp as well as possible but without a controller that tells it what flow temp to be, it'll always try to make whatever setpoint it's been set up for. The higher the temperature of your radiators, the higher the heat output - so if you're chucking 75 degrees water at it the room temperature is going to continue to rise unless it's very cold outside.
Weather compensation is adjustment of the flow temperature setpoint based on the outside temperature, and load compensation is based on the temperature of the room you're trying to heat Info is quite scarce on the details of exactly how particular boilers/thermostats communicate and what kind of algorithms they use though.

 

[snb]

Easy control with a 4000 boiler is wireless as in no cable between the easy stat and the boiler. It uses a wireless receiver that plugs directly into the boiler on the under side of the front facia.

The easy control uses weather comp via your address to get the weather data and the stat to get the internal room temp. It then uses a combination of both to determine the required flow temp. So the outside temp determines the initial max flow temp and then as the internal temp gets closer to the set temp so the flow temp is reduced