KITCHEN SOCKETS tripping RCD

[dpm_dpmartin]

At about 21:30 last night I was called by some pensioner Tenants, half the property had gone out, I visited and saw one RCD was down. I tried to flip it back up but it would not, I eventually flipped KITCHEN SOCKETS down and the RCD would go back up, bringing all other circuits on that RCD on. So they have lights, TV, etc..

In the kitchen I took a look at all sockets and turned them off - including sockets for the washer and oven... the hob is hard-wired but I turned off an isolation switch and I couldn't seem to access the integrated fridge freezer.

Flipping up KITCHEN SOCKETS still had the effect of the associated RCD going down.

I have put a job out on Checkatrade early this morning, but I'm conscious it's a Sunday and I may not get any responses. Is there anything else I can do? The property has an EICR and is well maintained, so my current thinking is that an appliance has gone, somehow, though I don't know why it's tripping things... but does it matter if I actually remove plugs from sockets rather than just turned them off?

That would be my own next step, until I can get someone in.

 

[pete01]

Definitely remove the plugs dont just switch off.

 

[terryplumb]

Yes ,remove plugs from sockets. Also check for fused connection units that may feed boiler/ external lights/ extractor hoods etc.

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

Thank you, I will revisit and do just that with what I can... kettle, toaster, air fryer etc..

 

[terryplumb]

You need to do all of them ,so there is nothing at all missed.

 

[jj4091]

If the fridge freezer was the only thing you could not isolate it suggests that may be your problem. But is it possible there is an outside socket or lght or something obscure connected to the kitchen circuit

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

Reporting back, I've been down (they're very close)... I removed all visible sockets that I could see... all I can not see is the oven / hob (isolated though) and the fridge freezer (maybe that's behind a bit of kitchen baseboard - as it's an integrated model)... and as soon as I flipped KITCHEN SOCKETS up the RCD tripped again.

If it's one of the in-built appliances that has failed, could that cause this tripping rather than it just dying quietly? By isolating the oven / hob have I ruled them out, or are they still suspects?

I've verified that the boiler is working at least, and the radiators are warm, so there is that... they're happy enough, but I'm scratching my head. I have had no replies to my job yet, and I'm wondering if I should start removing kitchen baseboard to try and pull the fridge freezer plug out.

 

[pete01]

As its been raining check outside sockets and lights, they can easily let water in.

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

It is raining right now, and OUTSIDE LIGHTS is directly to the left of KITCHEN SOCKETS in the consumer unit, obviously on the same RCD. That circuit has never flipped DOWN while I've been looking at things.

If I flip OUTSIDE LIGHTS DOWN, could it have an impact on KITCHEN SOCKETS?

 

[terryplumb]

You would need to know how the oven and hob connect to the circuit in order to rule them out. If they are plugged into sockets the plugs need to be removed. If they are wired through a double pole isolation switch ,that would suffice.

 

[terryplumb]

If the RCD can reset with kitchen sockets MCB switched off and outside lights MCB switch on ,then the outside lights isn't the cause of the RCD tripping.

 

[Rodders53]

Most sockets will switch only the Live/Line conductor so a Neutral fault is still connected. Hence the advice to unplug all. Double pole switched sockets are available that isolate both L and N; but it's not always easy to identify if they are DP or SP.

Fridge Freezer socket is likely in an adjacent cupboard: probably hidden behind pots/pans/fodstuffs - above or below is also possible - so if kickboards can be removed for a look-see do that.
One could even be behind it requiring removal of the appliance (which would be mad but anything is possible).

Washer? Dryer? Dishwasher? These haven't been mentioned... are they on the same kitchen ring main (even if in an adjacent utility room - like in my home).

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

If the RCD can reset with kitchen sockets MCB switched off and outside lights MCB switch on ,then the outside lights isn't the cause of the RCD tripping.

Yes, thanks, I can confirm this. The RCD is UP, OUTSIDE LIGHTS is UP, KITCHEN SOCKETS is DOWN. At least I can rule OUTSIDE LIGHTS out.

I have removed all plugs from sockets that I can see - I can confirm this also includes the washer, there is no dishwasher here. So I'm now back to the hidden things it looks like. Directly to the left of the fridge freezer is a stack of drawers, I looked inside these, towards the back, but they seem to have a back wall. I am building myself up to removing baseboard.

I will go back around before midday. Every time I try flick KITCHEN SOCKETS up the RCD trips which takes out the boiler too, so I don't want heating to become any kind of issue.

 

[terryplumb]

There is obviously a fault on that socket circuit.
A picture of the rest of the consumer unit would be helpful.
Is there an extractor unit above the hob ?

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

One could even be behind it requiring removal of the appliance (which would be mad but anything is possible).

I think the hob is hard-wired to an isolation switch.

I think the oven is plugged-in to a socket directly behind it.

I will remove baseboard to ascertain what I can about the fridge freezer (I stood on a chair and behind the cupboards there is definitely some space - about 10cm, where it pushes up against the wall, but I couldn't see a plug).