Why are there no old school heating engineers?

[denso13]

Which is related to the blockage problem you have. Whereabouts in Glasgow?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It’s nuts. If I was qualified I’d do it myself.

You don't need any qualification, to do the plumbing.

 

[ericmark]

I am an electrician, and it is the same with every trade, we need to keep track with new equipment, but also still be able to deal with the old. I am sure somewhere someone is still using dash pots on starters, but we have moved on and now look at inverters etc, but these are only found with industrial units, the domestic electrician most complex installation was the central heating.

And the domestic electrician, and I include myself, often got it wrong. Getting the manufacturer to put everything in a box, all pre-connected, so all the electrician had to do was connect it up, was a huge advance.

As the systems get bigger and bigger, it will not all fit in a box, and we get it where we need a heating and ventilation engineer who can work with complex systems, where radiators both heat and cool in an integrated way, connected to a building management system, but this is not really domestic, and the guys designing and working on these systems are paid a lot of money, far more than I want to pay someone working on my house.

And after spending time in University learning my profession, as an electrical engineer I want paying to match my qualifications, and I am sure a heating and ventilation engineer feels the same.

In the old days we had real boilers, where I volunteer we still do, over 100 years old now, and still working, and the carriages are still heated with steam, don't think proper boilers have ever been used for domestic central heating.

So there are guy who can repair your system, but they want paying serious money.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

And the domestic electrician, and I include myself, often got it wrong. Getting the manufacturer to put everything in a box, all pre-connected, so all the electrician had to do was connect it up, was a huge advance.

Yep, it was a revelation, when I swapped out my old heating control system for a new Vaillant ebus version - all the wiring, going into one little central box, and all the terminals neatly identified, flex grips - versus the tangle of wires snaking their way into a mass of strip connectors, with no ID's.

So much more fixable, until the electronics fail.

As the systems get bigger and bigger, it will not all fit in a box, and we get it where we need a heating and ventilation engineer who can work with complex systems, where radiators both heat and cool in an integrated way, connected to a building management system,

BMS's are great fun. All the heating, cooling, and lighting, able to be controlled from one central location, and adjusted from there, via the network.

 

[ericmark]

BMS's are great fun. All the heating, cooling, and lighting, able to be controlled from one central location, and adjusted from there, via the network.

I remember working in Next in Chester, the sun would only hit the windows at one time of year, and when it happened the cooling could go up the creak, there was no heating, the lights heated the building, but seemed daft to have to phone London to ask them to adjust the cooling in Chester.

 

[opps]

Oh dear - You are talking to the wrong folks if all they are saying is to throw a combi at it. Especially with more than one bathroom. (edit) Unfortunately, your husband is listening the wrong advice. What you're asking for is not really a difficult job, no. More money to them in a swap though, rather than a maintenance, easier too for some that don't have any open vent experience.

Nothing wrong with a gravity system if it's looked after. If one or 2 rads are filling with air all the time then I'm not surprised that the 'H' section with the feed and vent is blocked up and you are suffering from pumping over, one can feed the other.

Powerflush can be avoided if all the rads can be remove and manually flushed, or as suggested - system filled with cleaner, ran for a week or 2 then a drain/fill/drain/fill......

Which products would you recommend? And will they clear any sludge on/under the ground floor. I ask because my mum has no drain off lower than the ground floor rads. Apologies for potentially hijacking this thread.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Which products would you recommend? And will they clear any sludge on/under the ground floor. I ask because my mum has no drain off lower than the ground floor rads.

Chemical cleaners will only help loosen and break up sludge, they wont work on solid magnetite blockages, and any sludge/much loosened will still need washing out, afraid they wont counteract gravity so any low spots would need draining to remove water and crud.

Sentinel X400 is safe to leave in the system for several weeks, then once washed out and refilled, add X100 to inhibit further corrosion.

If the system is badly gunged up and has low lying inaccessible sections that could be an issue, then a Powerflush may be the best option as the flow of water will carry the crud with it and out for collection by the machine.

 

[DP]

Symptoms: Central heating system conventional, two rads one upstairs one down filling with air weekly, pumping over a bit and more in summer, magnet sticking to some pipes in airing cupboard.

Action required according to advice here: powerflush, cut out and replace affected pipes if necessary. Add inhibitor and a magnetic filter.

Can I get anyone to do this? No. Umpteen engineers won’t touch it. Either they want to rip it out and replace with a combi or insist I must have an underground leak even though there’s no signs of damp or smell. We have lots of hot water which heats quickly and radiators are nice and hot when bled. Our house is warmer than our neighbours and our bills are less Our Worcester boiler has been a star for 12 years.

My husband is believing these engineers that a combi is best (we have two baths and a cloakroom) but I’m not sure. One engineer thought it would be easier for me to continually bleed a combi rather than radiators and if there was an underground leak why would I want to dig up concrete.

Is what I’m asking for a difficult job?

If you post your location a bona fide heating engineer might get in touch.
Fitters normally fit combi boilers, for goodness sake, you could fit a combi after couple of hours of pep talk or reading the manual. To repair is another matter. That is where knowledge comes in
Pump over often incorrectly located pump. Magnet sticking to pipe due to accelerated corrosion as water falling into the cistern is getting oxygenated and that is corroding your radiators and air ingress at radiators too. Filter will help, cleaning worth considering, stay away from a combi

 

[debbiea]

so when eventually this boiler goes what would you replace it with?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

so when eventually this boiler goes what would you replace it with?

If what you have, is an heat-only boiler, replace it with a heat-only boiler.

The open-vented system you have, is a much better, and more expensive system to install, than a combi, and much more repairable. Get your system properly repaired, set up properly, an maintained properly, it will run for years. Worry about replacing your boiler, when your boiler has an issue.

 

[Madrab]

Nothing to say that the current system you have couldn't go to sealed either, would need to see what boiler you currently have etc and just exactly how you system is fairing at the moment.

As @DP suggests, if you give the general area where in Glasgow you are, I'm sure that there will be more than one engineer on here, within striking distance, that would probably be a lot more suitable at reviewing your system and giving you an experienced, pragmatic and honest opinion/approach than the slingers that seem to have visited you already.

 

[debbiea]

I’ll speak to hubbie cause one of the ‘slingers’ is his friend and get back

 

[Madrab]

Which products would you recommend? And will they clear any sludge on/under the ground floor. I ask because my mum has no drain off lower than the ground floor rads. Apologies for potentially hijacking this thread.

yes, a good cleaner that can happily sit in the system, X400/F3/MC3 etc can be added but the system does need to be flushed and filled and flushed and filled a few time to clear everything out once it's been in there a while. As long as you can mains flush the system clean through flow and return then the lower pipework should be able to be flushed out too.

When it comes to open vent then that can always be connected to a mains feed through the pump connections and then flushed through that way and rads can be removed and flushed outside etc if heavily sludged up. Then there's a magnaclense and the biggest job of all being a power flush could be performed but for me that is usually in extreme cases where everything has to stay in situ but usually only needed in the worst of systems.

 

[debbiea]

the fact we have heat and hot water makes me think a powerflush isn’t necessary

 

[Madrab]

I’ll speak to hubbie cause one of the ‘slingers’ is his friend and get back

Oh dear , apols, really didn't mean to diss any of his pals but the fact that you have 2 working bathrooms and a cloakroom and there if there is any possibility that more than one hot outlet will need to be run at the same time, say shower and bath, 2 showers, shower/bath and hand wash, shower and hand wash etc at the same time, then a combi isn't a good idea. Never mind the fact that filling up a bath with a suitable amount of hot enough water from a combi usually takes about 2 weeks (being facetious, not quite 2 weeks but it does take an awful loooong time), a combi really isn't a good idea.

Was your current WB a replacement to an older existing box that was there 12 years ago? If so then there was a good reason they didn't just throw in a combi at that time either. T hey didn't because they obviously knew it wasn't suitable then, just as it doesn't sound suitable now.