Who’s going to tell them that the answer is immigration?

[King Billy]

You're much better off if you don't bother with a pension and just get the most expensive house you can possibly afford. Then you can sell it and cash in the profit, completely tax-free, if you need to, and get the additional full state pension.

And if you can't afford to buy a house?

Quite doable if......

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

And if you can't afford to buy a house?

I'm pointing out that the system stinks. Those who save lose later. Whereas the value of your house gets overlooked. So the best bet is not to have money and have assets instead. A house is the only asset that you won't pay tax on.

But you won't get a mortgage as you're probably on the dole or long-term sick with some fictitious mental condition.

 

[MNW67]

I'm pointing out that the system stinks. Those who save lose later. Whereas the value of your house gets overlooked. So the best bet is not to have money and have assets instead. A house is the only asset that you won't pay tax on.

But you won't get a mortgage as you're probably on the dole or long-term sick with some fictitious mental condition.

Do you mean have a nice expensive house but little in the way of cash so that you can claim pension credit?

 

[King Billy]

I'm pointing out that the system stinks. Those who save lose later.

Nonsense they have a more comfortable, more independent retirement.

Whereas the value of your house gets overlooked. So the best bet is not to have money and have assets instead. A house is the only asset that you won't pay tax on.

If you can afford to buy your house, then you have assets to sell. We're talking about the pensioners who are entirely reliant on state pension or pension credit and they have no assets to sell, nor any savings

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Do you mean have a nice expensive house but little in the way of cash so that you can claim pension credit?

Correct. Then you have no money but have £100,000s of equity that you could release if necessary. It could also be useful if that house gets a bit knackered, then it could be downsized for a smaller brand new one with fully working everything.

All while claiming loadsamoney from the govt, perfectly legally.

Many currently claiming pension credit live in houses that are worth many £100,000s or more. Many of these are excessively large too, sometimes with whole floors and/or outbuildings that don't get used.

But Burnham will probably plan to seize everyone's house on death or even before, as he's a communist.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

If you can afford to buy your house, then you have assets to sell. We're talking about the pensioners who are entirely reliant on state pension or pension credit and they have no assets to sell, nor any savings

Rent paid, bills paid, free bus pass, plus some baked beans and Worthers Originals vouchers.

 

[SPLINE]

You seemed to be arguing for a fully funded state pension model rather than a PAYG state pension model.

No, I am trying to get people to think about how the state pension, which started off as a sensible scheme, has been perverted and promised to so many people, and that this is probably why it is unsustainable. I am not offering a solution, just trying to make people see a truth that is currently outside the Overton window

Mottie understands:

My point was, those that have not paid into the system, get far more than those that have.

I've described the NI credit and 0% band giveaways, but these were compounded, and then some, by pension credit, which does not apply to those who have worked for their pension, but entitles those who haven't to a sum equal to it, and qualifies them for housing and council tax benefit, free TV licence, travel costs for hospital appointments, cold weather payments, help with sight and dental treatment, help with heating bills and much more. All for doing f**k all.

Furthermore, any UK resident can get pension credit - yes, this includes foreigners who have only recently arrived.

 

[MNW67]

No, I am trying to get people to think about how the state pension, which started off as a sensible scheme, has been perverted and promised to so many people, and that this is probably why it is unsustainable. I am not offering a solution, just trying to make people see a truth that is currently outside the Overton window

Mottie understands:



I've described the NI credit and 0% band giveaways, but these were compounded, and then some, by pension credit, which does not apply to those who have worked for their pension, but entitles those who haven't to a sum equal to it, and qualifies them for housing and council tax benefit, free TV licence, travel costs for hospital appointments, cold weather payments, help with sight and dental treatment, help with heating bills and much more. All for doing f**k all.

Furthermore, any UK resident can get pension credit - yes, this includes foreigners who have only recently arrived.

I am aware of all that. There has always been a means tested safety net. But I was specifically interested in the issue of whether we could have a fully funded system rather than a PAYG system.

 

[King Billy]

Correct. Then you have no money but have £100,000s of equity that you could release if necessary. It could also be useful if that house gets a bit knackered, then it could be downsized for a smaller brand new one with fully working everything.

All while claiming loadsamoney from the govt, perfectly legally.

Many currently claiming pension credit live in houses that are worth many £100,000s or more. Many of these are excessively large too, sometimes with whole floors and/or outbuildings that don't get used.

So you think the government should compel these pensioners to sell their house to realise the potential, thereby reducing the cost of the government support to pensioners.
But this will only affect pensioners on Pension Credit. It will have no effect on Pensioners receiving a State Pension.

So for pensioners on Pension Credit, you fully agree with your imagined plan of Burnham's, to compel pensioners on Pension Credit to sell their house?

But Burnham will probably plan to seize everyone's house on death or even before, as he's a communist.

Have you seen his plans for if he wins the by-election, and if he wins the leadership contest, all of which are big ifs.

Do you have the slightest idea of what you're talking about?

It's like this police DEI guidance you claim to have seen, and I've asked you to show us, you're just full of nonsense.

 

[King Billy]

Rent paid, bills paid, free bus pass, plus some baked beans and Worthers Originals vouchers.

Rent paid? No, but possible assistance with rent.
Bills paid? No.
Free Bus Pass, Pension Credit is not listed in the eligibility criteria. So to stop this, you'll have to stop it for all pensioners.
Free baked beans? No.

Want to try again after doing a bit of research?
Or are you intent on gobbing off about something of which you obviously have no understanding?

 

[King Billy]

No, I am trying to get people to think about how the state pension, which started off as a sensible scheme, has been perverted and promised to so many people

That was how it was designed and it's still doing exactly that. So there has been no perversion (sic)
(I suggest you check the definition of "perverted")

and that this is probably why it is unsustainable.

That is why the government are tweaking it.

I am not offering a solution, just trying to make people see a truth that is currently outside the Overton window

So you're bringing to the public's attention what you think is a problem? OK, you've done that.
But you've misunderstood the Overton window. It does not refer to "problems", it refers to "solutions".
If the solution is outside the Overton window, it will not receive public support.
e.g. The problem (whether it's true or not is debatable) is too many prisoners for the prison capacity. The proposed solution is to begin a mass execution of prisoners.
Ah! That's outside the Overton window. D'you see now?
It isn't the problem that's outside the window, it's the proposed solution.

Mottie understands:

Mottie was wrong. His information was out-of-date.

I've described the NI credit and 0% band giveaways, but these were compounded, and then some, by pension credit,

Pension Credit is funded entirely by taxes, and not by NI.

which does not apply to those who have worked for their pension,

Of course, if they qualify for a pension, they're not entitled to Pension Credit.

but entitles those who haven't to a sum equal to it,

You're wrong and also out-of-date, based on Mottie's incorrect information.

and qualifies them for housing

No. They may be entitled to assistance.

and council tax benefit,

No They may be entitled to a reduction.

free TV licence,

Wowee! But all pensioners over 75 also get this.

travel costs for hospital appointments,

So can a range of others, e.g children, UC benefits, referral to specialists, etc. Do you really want to deny this assistance only to pensioners?
The additional administration would probably cost more than any savings.

cold weather payments,

All pensioners get that, and it was discussed in detail previously. It was decided that if it was restricted to only those on low income, the admin cost would be greater than any savings. Why do you think the reverse will be any different?

help with sight and dental treatment,

Everyone on low income is entitled. Do you want to deny this benefit to all on low income?

help with heating bills

Most pensioners get the same support, so there's no or little difference being on Pension Credit.

and much more.

Such as?

All for doing f**k all.

They may not have been doing nothing, they may have been a homemaker. (you'll probably have to look that up)

Furthermore, any UK resident can get pension credit -

Nonsense! They have to be eligible.

yes, this includes foreigners who have only recently arrived.

More nonsense:

Foreign nationals are generally not eligible for Pension Credit immediately upon arriving in the UK. To qualify, you must have reached State Pension age and possess a valid immigration status that permits access to public funds, such as Indefinite Leave to Remain or settled status.

Both Ivor and spineless spout a load of nonsense over things they have little understanding,
In the process they display an utter cruelty to the treatment of low income pensioners, and other people unfortunate enough to be on low income.

 

[Mottie]

Mottie was wrong. His information was out-of-date.

So was yours. I get more than the figure you showed. I was just highlighting the little difference between someone that has made the required years of NI payments verses those that have paid fùck all. Turns out that if you do make the required NI payments during a life at work, you get three quid a week more than someone who has paid nothing into the system and when on pension credit, it opens up a whole world of eligibility for further benefits not available to those who have paid in. Who are the mugs here?

 

[Odds]

So was yours. I get more than the figure you showed. I was just highlighting the little difference between someone that has made the required years of NI payments verses those that have paid fùck all. Turns out that if you do make the required NI payments during a life at work, you get three quid a week more than someone who has paid nothing into the system and when on pension credit, it opens up a whole world of eligibility for further benefits not available to those who have paid in. Who are the mugs here?

The folk who keep voting in Tories to maintain the unbalanced economic system that allows the top earners to get away with all kinds of tax avoidance schemes, raking in millions, while y'all wheeze at the way the benefits system pays out a couple quid extra to those who have little or nothing.

 

[Mottie]

You're wrong and also out-of-date, based on Mottie's incorrect information.

£3 a week out. Okay, if you want to split hairs, carry on.

 

[Mottie]

The folk who keep voting in Tories to maintain the unbalanced economic system that allows the top earners to get away with all kinds of tax avoidance schemes, raking in millions, while y'all wheeze at the way the benefits system pays out a couple quid extra to those who have little or nothing.

Dunno if you’ve noticed but Labour are in power now. Been in for a couple of years. What have they done to rebalance the economic system?