can we change to a combi?

[Doctor Drivel]

Look at the Ethos combi, they are highly cost effective.
http://www.ethosboilers.co.uk/products_54c.php
It actually gives 23 litres/min @ 35C temp rise, capable of supplying two bathrooms. It takes an OpenTherm room temp controller. The Honeywell Cronotherm will do. It modulates the burner via the controller.

Quite interested in this but you would more than likely have to upgrade the gas meter to a U16 and the gas supply from the meter to the boiler with 35MM pipe for the 54KW model,surely?

Tony.

You don't know much about gas and boilers do you? A U6 meter can pass 6 cu metres/hr or 212 cu foot/hr. A 54 kW boilers is 3412 * 54 = 182,248 BTU/hr. To get the approx cu foot per hour divide by 1000, which is 182. So well inside the 212. They could have taken it further, however they like to lave capacity at the meter for a cooker/hob.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

You have never heard of 108% efficiency in heating?

Not without some free energy coming from somewhere! Enlighten me!

You know nothing of heating that is for sure. Sensible heat is rated to 100%. Latent heat takes it over 100%. Any heating man would know that.

Are you serious? Ravenheat. The FIAT of the boiler world. All they ever do is leak. Total scrap!

Total scrap if you like, with an atmospheric burner at a third of the cost and with a higher SAP rating. Did you say Giannoni burner? like what everyone else including Ravenheat uses in their premix models? I dont want to knock your toy too much cos I actually like it. It ticks the British design box, It is put together by the Dutch who I trust more than the Italians when it comes to quality but the parts in it are still the same as found in other boilers with the exception of the DHW coil which I haven't come across before. I notice that an expansion vessel and a PRV still need to be purchased.

The quality DHW delivery and functions are above the rest. Only Man equals. It is also cheap for what it is.

A pre-heat top box? Nothing new and they are "expensive"

And due to the demands for lower carbon footprints they will be getting more popular. How much do you think it will cost for one? Is £400 too much? I expect there could be grants available for kit like this sooner or later.

You were making out it was something new invented by scrap makers Ravenheat.

but to bring this into perspective it requires the installation of an unvented pre-heat storage cylinder.

That rules them out then. Tell then in Leeds to go thermal storage. Much better, much more efficient and doesn't take down the side of your house. They were never that bright at Ravenheat!!!! Such cheap scrap!

No reason why it can't be used with a thermal store which is still technically speaking unvented

Holy Moses !!!!! This one hasn't a clue!!!! Is he allowed into people's homes???

[/i]

 

[oilman]

You know nothing of heating that is for sure. Sensible heat is rated to 100%. Latent heat takes it over 100%. Any heating man would know that.

This is the statement to date that best reflects your username. however you measure it, you will ALWAYS get less heat out of an appliance than the theoretical energy value of the fuel you put in. Therefore it will be LESS than 100%. If this is not the case, please let the government know, and they can stop global warming at a stroke.

 

[tonybhoy]

Look at the Ethos combi, they are highly cost effective.
http://www.ethosboilers.co.uk/products_54c.php
It actually gives 23 litres/min @ 35C temp rise, capable of supplying two bathrooms. It takes an OpenTherm room temp controller. The Honeywell Cronotherm will do. It modulates the burner via the controller.

Quite interested in this but you would more than likely have to upgrade the gas meter to a U16 and the gas supply from the meter to the boiler with 35MM pipe for the 54KW model,surely?

Tony.

You don't know much about gas and boilers do you? A U6 meter can pass 6 cu metres/hr or 212 cu foot/hr. A 54 kW boilers is 3412 * 54 = 182,248 BTU/hr. To get the approx cu foot per hour divide by 1000, which is 182. So well inside the 212. They could have taken it further, however they like to lave capacity at the meter for a cooker/hob.

Aye, right you are then plenty of gas left for other appliances

Thanks for the reply.

I won't stoop to your level.

Costs nothing to be polite

 

[Doctor Drivel]

You know nothing of heating that is for sure. Sensible heat is rated to 100%. Latent heat takes it over 100%. Any heating man would know that.

This is the statement to date that best reflects your username. however you measure it, you will ALWAYS get less heat out of an appliance than the theoretical energy value of the fuel you put in. Therefore it will be LESS than 100%. If this is not the case, please let the government know, and they can stop global warming at a stroke.

From the Ethos boiler installation manual:

"This ETHOS; is a high efficiency, condensing, combination Boiler. Flues are cooled below condensation point by a Spiranox heat exchanger made of stainless steel. This produces an additional heat which will contribute to the boiler efficiency, which is in excess of 107%. The European calculation method assumes 100% efficiency for appliances which do not condense and efficiencies higher than 100% for condensing appliances."

This is the problem when they allow plumbers, like this one, into heating.
[/i]

 

[oilman]

In that case it's a scrap piece of specmanship and bears no relation to the real world. If you are prepared to peddle this tripe, then you must have gullible customers. Me, I'm just a simpleton, and in engineering there is nothing more available than what you put in, in fact it will always be less into the house as some will go out of the flue. So you carry on leading people up the garden path, and reading your drivel, doctor.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

In that case it's a scrap piece of specmanship and bears no relation to the real world. If you are prepared to peddle this tripe, then you must have gullible customers. Me, I'm just a simpleton, and in engineering there is nothing more available than what you put in, in fact it will always be less into the house as some will go out of the flue. So you carry on leading people up the garden path, and reading your drivel, doctor.

You didn't kn ow that either. I never wrote it. Note the quotes.

 

[oilman]

You know nothing of heating that is for sure. Sensible heat is rated to 100%. Latent heat takes it over 100%. Any heating man would know that.

Did you, or did you not, write this?

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

"This ETHOS; is a high efficiency, condensing, combination Boiler. Flues are cooled below condensation point by a Spiranox heat exchanger made of stainless steel. This produces an additional heat which will contribute to the boiler efficiency, which is in excess of 107%. The European calculation method assumes 100% efficiency for appliances which do not condense and efficiencies higher than 100% for condensing appliances."

Doctor Drivel. I suggest you go and get a mint card with 0% on balance transfers. When you pay your 2.9% handling fee then your mental balance may be restored. Yes I see what you are saying that the latent heat is recovered when the steam condenses an all that but this was only heat that was there to be taken in the first place. The european calculation method is just another way of screwing around with figures.
I'm with Albert Einstein on this one. Energy can neither be created or destroyed, it merely changes from one form to another. To which I'd like to add the following:- Unless some number cruncher, statistician or spin Doctor decides to cook the books.

 

[billy bob]

You know nothing of heating that is for sure. Sensible heat is rated to 100%. Latent heat takes it over 100%. Any heating man would know that.

This is the statement to date that best reflects your username. however you measure it, you will ALWAYS get less heat out of an appliance than the theoretical energy value of the fuel you put in. Therefore it will be LESS than 100%. If this is not the case, please let the government know, and they can stop global warming at a stroke.

From the Ethos boiler installation manual:

"This ETHOS; is a high efficiency, condensing, combination Boiler. Flues are cooled below condensation point by a Spiranox heat exchanger made of stainless steel. This produces an additional heat which will contribute to the boiler efficiency, which is in excess of 107%. The European calculation method assumes 100% efficiency for appliances which do not condense and efficiencies higher than 100% for condensing appliances."

This is the problem when they allow plumbers, like this one, into heating.
[/i]

That is what all condensing boilers do, cool the flue products to increase efficiency, as for the 107% efficiencies, all condensing boilers can be calculated to show over 100%, but we know this is rubbish in the UK, so most manufacturers do not use this method, it is just the difference between using Net or Gross figures in the calculation.

 

[pure plumbers]

I have got to say what stem has written is just rubbish
Are you a politician?

By the very fact that combination boilers are sealed they are 20% more efficient than a conventional system.

I could if I had the time pull apart all your points, Where did you get your information from?

Both unhelpful and defiantly in-correct

 

[stem]

For those who are having difficulty understanding my post;

Find out the difference between combi, standard boiler and condensing boiler.

By the very fact that combination boilers are sealed they are 20% more efficient than a conventional system.

I will try to clarify. Apologies if my original text was unclear. In context, the OP was asking about changing an existing old boiler for a new combi. My reply was of course based on this information, so it should be understood as follows:

1. By normal boiler I meant condensing, room sealed, but without the system components, so the existing feed & expansion tank would be re-used.

2. By combi I meant condensing, room sealed system combi where all of the component are inside and there is no need for a F&E tank.

As you can see both are condensing and room sealed.

Trust this clarifies.

 

[Nige F]

Combis score in eliminating tanks and cylinders and giving instant DHW for ever.

Some of what you say in your posts is valid for some circumstances, however this sentence might make some think there is more than a coincidence in your username.

I recognise drivel when I read it!!! You do come to mind.

Oh good here we go again

Yawwn

Good!! go to sleep, where many "plumbers" have been for decades.

Huh eh ...what YAWN ..what`s occuring

 

[Balenza]

billybob wrote

as for the 107% efficiencies, all condensing boilers can be calculated to show over 100%, but we know this is rubbish in the UK,

So why can heat pumps operate at efficiencies of up to 300 percent and even higher ?.
Yes I know one burns fuel and the other one uses a compression cycle.
But the basic operations of the compression refrigeration cycle are based upon the two heats ,sensible and latent.
So at the basic level I think the physics are similar.

Why is it impossible for the energy extracted in a condensing boiler from the latent heat not to push the boiler over the 100 percent efficiency thresh hold ?.

 

[gas4you]

Ethos 54C uses 5.6m3/hr gas rate. Anyone who actually installs gas appliances will know the reality of a G4/U6 meter is that you will be VERY lucky to get 6m3/hr flow through it, so a U16 would be a must, especially if other appliances are being used simultaneously