IS IT LEGAL TO DIY GAS- FAQ

[Bahco]

Hmmmm I went to a DIY gas job recently and found numerous compression fittings below floorboards and a capped end in speedfit ,,, was he competent???

Thanks for your reply but I would prefer if opinions or comments were kept to a minimum.

IT IS THE LEGAL POSITION that I shall be using for the FAQ

Of course you can discuss opinions etc in another thread if you wish.

Thanks for replies so far lads.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

Hmmmm I went to a DIY gas job recently and found numerous compression fittings below floorboards and a capped end in speedfit ,,, was he competent???

Thanks for your reply but I would prefer if opinions or comments were kept to a minimum.

IT IS THE LEGAL POSITION that I shall be using for the FAQ

This is hilarious!!!! Legal position? Where is that in law?

 

[nickso]

That doesn't mean they CAN do WORK if they're INcompetent, though.

Drivel's attitude is that DIY'ers can do work unless they do something incompetent, which is clearly rubbish. Most of the time they wouldn't know what they were doing.

i agree, if they are incompetent then they shouldnt do it, the problem is that there is currently no one and no way to prove that they are either competent or incompetent without incurring a cost that isnt going to attract any diyer's. the only way they are likely to show that they are incompetent is if they make a mistake big enough to cause damage or injury. how do they prove their competence? take the ACS? not likely to happen in the real world is it?

Unless they held an appropriate plumbing qualification and could prove they have up to 70 days auditable work working with gas alongside a registered Corgi Engineer they would not be able to sit the ACS exams..

er yes, proves my point then. thanks.

 

[ChrisR]

What point? Of course I'm not suggesting that diyers should take the test, but that they should ask themselves IF they would pass it if they did.
If the answer's no, then they aren't competent.

 

[nickso]

What point? Of course I'm not suggesting that diyers should take the test, but that they should ask themselves IF they would pass it if they did.
If the answer's no, then they aren't competent.

im not disagreeing with you chris, im merely saying that not all diyers will be incompetent. how do they prove it? by asking themselves? be realistic.

even you have admitted not everyone will be incompetent.

Most of the time they wouldn't know what they were doing.

 

[gasacs]

What point? Of course I'm not suggesting that diyers should take the test, but that they should ask themselves IF they would pass it if they did.
If the answer's no, then they aren't competent.

I agree and my point is without the relavent experience they would be hard pressed to prove they were competent.

 

[Breesey]

This is hilarious!!!! Legal position? Where is that in law?

Do you understand the difference between 'able to...' and 'competant to..' ?
The difference is clear even to the most pedantic. And that is why the law uses the word competant. Your quotes to back up your claim do not show that the law is lacking, merely that it is possibly a little unclear. However due consideration has been given to the terminology and at present it is considered to be sufficient. If you believe there is no difference please explain why.

 

[WDIK]

COMPETENT

With regard to working with gas, its not simplely a matter of being able perform a task of "work" (deff)

its the case that while undertaking that work it must be undertaken safely with proper regard to the 1998 GSIU Regs.

I draw your attention to Regulation 26

Reg 26-(9) Where a person performs work on a gas appliance he shall immeadiately thereafter examine-

(a) the effectivness of any flue;
(b) the supply of combustion air;
(c) its operating pressure or heat input or, where necessary, both;
(d) its operation so as to ensure its safe functioning;


any gas diy work that has not been subjected to the above regulation
and statutory checks, has therefore been done in an INCOMPETENT manner.

 

[doitall]

Seems a one sided argument again, Delete what you don't like or understand

DIY installation and maintenance

Question 30. Should DIY work be legally prohibited, eg by restricting the sale of gas equipment to registered gas installers? Should retailers be legally required to record sales of gas equipment and pass these to a central body, perhaps CORGI? Should any central body selected for this purpose be required to arrange the inspection of gas installation work in any case where the record of sale suggests work will be carried out by an unregistered installer? Should increased publicity on the dangers of DIY gas work be given by (i) HSE campaigns, (ii) manufacturer's warnings, (iii) other means? (HSC Discussion Document 'Gas Safety Review: option for change', DDE14a, Page 50)

Recommendation 26

226. We understand concern about the possible risks posed by incompetent DIY gas work, but believe at present there is insufficient hard evidence of incidents to support the introduction of a legal ban. However, we recognise that current statistics might not tell the full story and recommend that further work be done more accurately to identify the scale of the problem, ie by refining arrangements for reporting incidents specifically to identify those related to DIY (see Recommendation 9), with a view to reviewing the legal position again (say in five years time).

227. In the meantime, we recommend that increased publicity should be given to the dangers of DIY gas work (possibly funded through industry and the Gas Safety Levy - see Recommendations 7 and 11). This should focus more on legal requirements for competence if DIY is undertaken, and penalties if these are not met. More encouragement should also be given to retailers for providing 'point of sale' information, and equipment manufacturers to include warnings
with products.

Analysis of responses

228. Of a total 109 responses to Q 30, 54 supported the principle of banning DIY with 35 specifically against; whereas 44 were in favour of a ban in practice with 47 against (NB some voted just for principle or practice, others for both). The similar question in the consumer document resulted in 29 favouring a ban with 31 against and 1 unclear. Replies to the public questionnaire showed 285 in favour of a ban with 54 against. The issue was also posted on a DIY Internet web site which provoked a number of responses from those practising DIY gas work; these were against more legal controls but generally supported further publicity, stressing competence requirements for DIY rather than frightening people away from doing it.

Argument

232. Data currently available suggests that a number of gas incidents have occurred over recent years where DIY is directly or indirectly implicated, but, the link is not always entirely clear and in some cases it is possible for other factors to have contributed. At present we do not believe that this evidence is sufficiently strong to suggest that current legal controls (ie for competence under GSIUR regulation 3(1)) are inadequate, and an
absolute ban needs to be placed on DIY.


If you look at some of the rest of the report, and contributing consultants reports concerning dangers in the home in general, you will read that in the gas arena, CO poisoning is by far and away the biggest issue, and that all gas related accidents in the home are a tiny proportion of the total. Ergo, DIY gas work is not a major focus area for the HSE at present.

That's pretty definitive. This statement from above says it all...if an "absolute ban needs to be placed on DIY" (as there is not one).

Again.....
"At present we do not believe that this evidence is sufficiently strong to suggest that current legal controls (ie for competence under GSIUR regulation 3(1)) are inadequate, and an absolute ban needs to be placed on DIY."

 

[ChrisR]

No I'm not saying that all diyers will be incompetent.
But if they don't KNOW they're competent then they won't be.
It's not like someone's going to do a tightness test correctly by guessing, is it?
Are you saying it's ok for him to do things because he MIGHT NOT make a mistake?

It's Donald Rumsfeldt's "Unknown Unknowns" which will catch him out.

 

[kevplumb]

which is why i stated imho it should be illegal then there is a line not a grey area

 

[nickso]

COMPETENT

With regard to working with gas, its not simplely a matter of being able perform a task of "work" (deff)

its the case that while undertaking that work it must be undertaken safely with proper regard to the 1998 GSIU Regs.

I draw your attention to Regulation 26

Reg 26-(9) Where a person performs work on a gas appliance he shall immeadiately thereafter examine-

(a) the effectivness of any flue;
(b) the supply of combustion air;
(c) its operating pressure or heat input or, where necessary, both;
(d) its operation so as to ensure its safe functioning;


any gas diy work that has not been subjected to the above regulation
and statutory checks, has therefore been done in an INCOMPETENT manner.

none of that is particularly difficult to do and doesnt need any particularly special tools. while previous experience would help most of that could be found in books and subject to sound engineering judgement a clever non rgi could easily complete those tasks.

i can see the way this is going and before anyone accuses me of it im not bumming up drivel and i would prefer that the public left well alone but so far no one has convinced me its illegal.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Bacho there are 119 articles on the hse site mainly discussion documents,

go to page six

This document was published in 2000 and the HSE seem to have changed their tune somewhat as the recent Rhondda Landlord case shows.



Rhondda landlord prosecuted for carrying out his own gas work

The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) is warning landlords to use only competent CORGI registered gas fitters work on domestic gas appliances. The warning follows HSE’s prosecution of a Rhondda landlord after he carried out gas work at one of his properties.

Martin Griffiths, of Herbert Street, Treorchy, was fined a total of £6,000 and ordered to pay £4,478 costs after pleading guilty to breaching Regulations 3(1) and 36(4) of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 at Llwynypia Magistrates Court on 25th January 2008.

Mr Griffiths fitted a boiler by himself at a flat he owned in Mitchell Court, Tonypandy. His tenant noticed there was a gas leak and reported it to Transco, who made it safe.

HSE inspector Hugh Emment said: "Mr Griffiths was not accredited to carry out work on gas appliances and the consequences could have been extremely serious.

“We will prosecute people who work on gas appliances without the proper accreditation. In this case, the risk was fire or explosion but improperly maintained appliances can also give rise to carbon monoxide (CO) which is potentially lethal. You cannot see, smell or taste CO fumes, leaving anyone exposed feeling unwell. In the worst situations, CO can kill without warning in just hours.

"The law requires that only trained, competent people work on gas appliances, and the only accreditation currently recognised by HSE is membership of CORGI. If you are having gas work done, always check the fitter's CORGI identity card before you let them start work."

Notes to editors

1. Regulation 3(1) of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 states: "No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so."

Just because the work was not being done in his own house and he was not being paid for it does not alter the fact that it was DIY work. The man was not Corgi registered therefore, by definition, he was not competent and consequently he was guilty of the offence under Regulation 3(1) which, as I have said before, is a catch-all.

It is not a question of whether anyone can do gas work, which is to do with your competence, but whether anyone may do gas work, to which the answer is unequivocal:NO, you may only do gas work if you are Corgi registered.

As for identifying Corgi members on this site, that's easy: the contributors to this topic who say anyone may do DIY gas work are, obviously, not Corgi members.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

Just because the work was not being done in his own house and he was not being paid for it does not alter the fact that it was DIY work.

The work was being done for gain (he a landlord and the house was a business) ..so Corgi registration needed.

 

[WDIK]

"At present we do not believe that this evidence is sufficiently strong to suggest that current legal controls (ie for competence under GSIUR regulation 3(1)) are inadequate, and an absolute ban needs to be placed on DIY."

can I politely ask is the source here the hse site?


as I quoted verbatum reg 26 stipulates statutory checks.

other that say a retired rgi or lapsed, both of which i would say were competent to perform the statutory tests.

how would a diyer even understand what those words mean?
therefore how could they carry out the statutory tests?

therefore they are deemed to be incompetent due to ignorance of the regs.