Internal Insulation of Sold Wall Cottage

wcavanagh · 9 Nov 2015

So I am about to undertake a major renovation of a 1900 solid wall cottage. Now I will be removed all lath and plaster from walls and ceilings and changing layout etc. While I have all internal walls down I am going to insulate.

As far as I can see I should build stud wall just forward of the uneven solid wall, and fill with insulation between suds. I have no issue with this, but I am confused about vapor barrier. On this attached it would seem to show VB goes on room face of stud before Plasterboard? Is this right? Surely when adding sockets, etc, this would compromise it?

wcavanagh · 9 Nov 2015

Ive seen mention of a services void? Is this the solution?

Cheers

cAtLeYx · 9 Nov 2015

The situation you have detailed would be correct, although I would advise on a Gypliner in lieu of timber. If fixed the floor and ceiling there is no requirement to fix directly to the existing wall. As you have highlighted all penetrations through the Vapour control layer will need to be addressed. You can buy vapour control back boxes for your socket outlets.

wcavanagh · 9 Nov 2015

Thanks for the reply. never used Gypliner before, always worked with timber. The plan was to fix to floor and ceiling then 600 centers across the wall. As the stone wall is uneven. What advantages are to gain over timber?

Also I have read a services gap can be created between VPM and Plasterboard? Is this a viable option? The house is around 200 sq/m so fair amount of wall to cover.

Cheers,
Will

cAtLeYx · 9 Nov 2015

wcavanagh said:
Thanks for the reply. never used Gypliner before, always worked with timber. The plan was to fix to floor and ceiling then 600 centers across the wall. As the stone wall is uneven. What advantages are to gain over timber?

A Gypliner is only my preference. Just prefer to have metal sat in the cavity, it can be a smaller section size and therefore the encroachment into your space is less, and I believe its a more stable product. Others may prefer treated timber.

wcavanagh said:
Also I have read a services gap can be created between VPM and Plasterboard?

No - The service void needs to be between the existing face of the wall and the back of the frame / insulation.

wcavanagh said:
The house is around 200 sq/m so fair amount of wall to cover.

£20 m2 should give you an idea.

wcavanagh · 10 Nov 2015

Thanks very much. So I should run the cables in before insulation, then cut holes through the insulation for the cables into the sockets? How is this then sealed again? Sorry for the silly questions, trying to get my head round it.

I had planned to install 80mm Kingspan between 100mm studs, as to give me 20mm service space.

wcavanagh · 10 Nov 2015

Me again.

Been looking at these metal systems, and they seem to be much better value than C16 2x4 I was planning on using. I have a question, with fitting track to ceiling and floor, the vertical 2.4m sections, do they need noggings?

And one more question, how do you attache the VCL to these? As with C16 I would staple.

AronSearle · 10 Nov 2015

Yes you can have service void so as not to compramise the VCL, so VCL or foil faced insulation, battens and then plasterboard. You can find this detail on most insulation and membrane manufacturers websites, and on accredited details. As long as the VCL is on the warm side of the construction, it is doing its job.

also https://content.historicengland.org...-solid-walls/eehb-insulating-solid-walls.pdf/

Page 19

Secondly, is your airspace ventilated to the outside, if it is not then there is no point having it (if it is ventillated to the inside, then you compramised your insulation).

cAtLeYx said:
No - The service void needs to be between the existing face of the wall and the back of the frame / insulation.

Wut?

That's completely wrong.

wcavanagh · 10 Nov 2015

Many Thanks for the info.

So I can create my service void inside on the warm side? This is good it makes more logical sense to me, this way no need to cut holes through the insulation boards.

The airspace you mention, the only reason for having it was to take up the very uneven walls, they are solid stone, its a 1900 cottage in Scotland, with very deep solid walls. This space will be minimal.

This photo.

Shows insulation boards direct onto solid wall, I cannot do this due to how bad the walls are and they are not internally plastered.

I was going to build a frame fixed to ceiling and floor from C16 and infill with the 80mm insulation, but if using one of the metal fram methods, can I do the same? Would the metal create a bridge form cold side to warm side?

cAtLeYx · 10 Nov 2015

cAtLeYx · 10 Nov 2015

AronSearle said:
Yes you can have service void so as not to compramise the VCL, so VCL or foil faced insulation, battens and then plasterboard. You can find this detail on most insulation and membrane manufacturers websites, and on accredited details. As long as the VCL is on the warm side of the construction, it is doing its job.

also https://content.historicengland.org...-solid-walls/eehb-insulating-solid-walls.pdf/

Page 19

Secondly, is your airspace ventilated to the outside, if it is not then there is no point having it (if it is ventillated to the inside, then you compramised your insulation).

cAtLeYx said:

No - The service void needs to be between the existing face of the wall and the back of the frame / insulation.

Click to expand...

Wut?

That's completely wrong.

Would it not be a better debate to advise a person where it is wrong than simply saying it is. - I'm having a Déjà vu moment here.!

wcavanagh · 12 Nov 2015

Thanks all.

Still confused about insulation between the metal vertical supports. The Gyplock systems shows the insulation panels attached to the Plaaterboard, and this is not practical for 80mm + insulation.

Any help would be great.

Cheers,
Will

AronSearle · 12 Nov 2015

Yes the metal frame will be a cold bridge, but that is not to say it is a problem, just an inefficency.

Putting it between studs, timber or metal, may mean it is easier for you to do services if you are not doing a service zone.

cAtLeYx said:
Would it not be a better debate to advise a person where it is wrong than simply saying it is. - I'm having a Déjà vu moment here.!

I gave plenty of sources in another thread demonstrating my point, including .gov sources, and reputable standard details from manufaturers. No one wanted to click on the link to educate themselves, why should I waste my time debating it further?

wcavanagh · 13 Nov 2015

Thank you very much. I am still a few weeks off this, but will keep researching.

I am surprised the cost different in metal vs timber

cAtLeYx · 13 Nov 2015

AronSearle said:
Yes the metal frame will be a cold bridge, but that is not to say it is a problem, just an inefficency.

Hi AronSearl - Thanks for another nondescript response.

You say above "The metal frame will be a cold bridge" Perhaps to show your experience here you could explain this comment, bearing in mind the metal stud is situated behind the insulation in my previous post. Your own words please no hyperlinks or .gov references.
"Cold bridging is not a problem just an inefficiency" Again a simple response as to why cold bridging is not a problem would be great.

AronSearle said:
I gave plenty of sources in another thread demonstrating my point, including .gov sources, and reputable standard details from manufacturers No one wanted to click on the link to educate themselves, why should I waste my time debating it further?

You are incorrect - I did take the time to click the links and had a good read. But none of your offerings where relevant to the original post. If you would like to revisit that thread you will note you have not responded to my last post.

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Internal Insulation of Sold Wall Cottage

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