Unstick painted sash windows

As well as a couple of normal painted shut outward opening windows, I've several wooden sash windows which have been totally or partly painted shut. Some also to have several layers outside and in.

How can I get them opening and what tools do I need? Knife, tiny grinder disc, heated blade,...?

I used to use these and a small hammer, dont come across many wooden sash windows these days.
Or remove the beading on the frame and then replace with new .

I had old sashes on my previous house, it was part of the character of the building, so being feed up with them constantly sticking through years of paint, some not opening properly etc., I went for a total refurb. You can find lots of companies who provide this service. If you have good carpentry skills you can do this yourself, it involves taking them out of the frame, sanding down the years of paint to the original state. Bit of a pain really but then you end up with better fitting windows. Its rare to find original wooden sashes, most having been ditched for plastic replacements.

I would use a pallet knife or scraper to break the paint seal and make sure when repainting that you don't get any paint in the internal rebate where the sashes slide, oil the wood here for ease of operation.

Good luck

d000hg said:

As well as a couple of normal painted shut outward opening windows, I've several wooden sash windows which have been totally or partly painted shut. Some also to have several layers outside and in.

How can I get them opening and what tools do I need? Knife, tiny grinder disc, heated blade,...?

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I start with a Stanley knife and then (as Bosswhite suggests) I use filler knives with a hammer.

If the paint build up outside is really bad, I use a Fein Multitool.

Be careful when releasing top sashes, you have no way of knowing whether the sash cords are intact.

A friend of mine (the Sash Master) repairs sash windows in West London, he normally drives a couple of screws in to the corresponding channels in the sash box to mitigate the risk of the window crashing down. He routinely removes the existing staff beads (the beads that stops the lower sash falling in to the room) and the parting beads (the beads between the upper and lower sashes) and replaces them with new beadings that have draught excluding brushes built in. He then sands the sahes, planes them to help them fit the sash box which has invariably shifted over time, double checks the weights (important if the old 3mm glass has been replaced with 4mm). Additionally he uses a router to insert easyglide inserts into the side edges of the sashes, they help to centre the sashes and help them glide whilst being opened and closed.

If you are only concerned about being able to partially open and close your windows, then you should be good to go, if however you want them to be draught proofed and easy to open, I would probably recommend that you find a specialist. Unfortunately, you won't be able to source the brush piles, easy glide inserts, beadings with the carriers for the piles (etc). in your local builder's merchant.

I don't know where you live. John (the Sash Master) might be willing to give you some pointers if you email him (especially if you tell him that you found his details on this site).

Best of luck .

Thanks for that. I've heard of similar things being routinely done when refurbishing an older sash window - for instance to replace the glass or whatever. It seems these brushes and plastic parting beads can make a big difference although I must say, those windows of ours that open are fairly smooth considering they are ~140 years old. I can see where parts of the original frame have been cut out and new wood spliced in so assume they've been well cared for.

I was actually wondering how the top sashes work; if they have the exact same rope+pulley+weight setup as the lower sash, just hidden inside the box?

gingerbiscuit said:

I had old sashes on my previous house, it was part of the character of the building, so being feed up with them constantly sticking through years of paint, some not opening properly etc., I went for a total refurb. You can find lots of companies who provide this service. If you have good carpentry skills you can do this yourself, it involves taking them out of the frame, sanding down the years of paint to the original state. Bit of a pain really but then you end up with better fitting windows. Its rare to find original wooden sashes, most having been ditched for plastic replacements.

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Obviously a few years ago now but do you have a rough idea what that cost per pane/window, how long it takes? Is this something any window-fitter should be able to do, or are there fitters who only fit new windows and I need more of a joiner? It sounds actually fairly straight-forward with confidence and the right knowledge/tools, unlike making sashes from scratch which is quite a skilled job.

gingerbiscuit said:

Its rare to find original wooden sashes, most having been ditched for plastic replacements.

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Where I work in West London, sliding sash windows are considered to be desirable (and aspirational) features (assuming that house had them originally). It is not uncommon to see people ripping out UPVC windows and replacing them with timber double glazed sliding sashes. They are pretty expensive though.

I've seen arguments wooden ones will last longer. But new ones are very pricey.

My 140-year old ones that don't appear to have been updated work better than some of the 5-year old ones in my last house. It was in a conservation area so they had to put period-style features in new houses, hence cheap plastic sashes that wouldn't close properly, moved in/out as well as up/down, etc.

In conservation areas, there are also a lot of wooden windows remaining. My home town is Durham, and in the city centre there are many whole streets where all houses still have original single glazed sashes. I think Edinburgh is similar, many other old towns/cities must be too.

d000hg said:

I was actually wondering how the top sashes work; if they have the exact same rope+pulley+weight setup as the lower sash, just hidden inside the box?

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Yep, they are the same as the lower sashes. The primary difference is that the counterweights for the upper and lower sashes exist at different heights in the boxes (ie the weights for the upper sash lives low down in the box and the ones for the lower sash live high up in the box).

If you were to remove the staff bead and then the parting bead, you will be able to access the "pockets" where the weights would then be accessible.

The irony is that timber used to construct a sash 140 years ago is probably superior to any softwood you could source today.

d000hg said:

Obviously a few years ago now but do you have a rough idea what that cost per pane/window, how long it takes? Is this something any window-fitter should be able to do, or are there fitters who only fit new windows and I need more of a joiner? It sounds actually fairly straight-forward with confidence and the right knowledge/tools, unlike making sashes from scratch which is quite a skilled job.

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AFAIK building regs says that if you replace the frame/box, you have to have double glazed units fitted into the new timber replacements.

Off the top of my head I think that you are looking at up to 10 times more to replace the boxes and sashes (hardwood) than to recondition them (don't forget to factor in the cost of interior plastering and new architraves etc). That said, you will end up with a product that has superior thermal qualities.

My windows were 130 years old, it took a couple of guys to do the 8 windows in a couple of days, they even applied a primer coat They advertised as specialist sash window refurbishment. I was certainly impressed with the work. It was about 12 years ago in the West Kent area. I can't remember what I paid but it was more cost effective than replacing them.

gingerbiscuit said:

My windows were 130 years old, it took a couple of guys to do the 8 windows in a couple of days, they even applied a primer coat They advertised as specialist sash window refurbishment. I was certainly impressed with the work. It was about 12 years ago in the West Kent area. I can't remember what I paid but it was more cost effective than replacing them.

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Did they strip the sashes and the box and everything right back to bare wood then?

One thing I'm trying to figure out is how one is supposed to repaint sash windows - every 3-5 years apparently. Gloss paint takes a while to try but none of the moving parts can touch when wet. If you're supposed to paint inside the box as well so no wood is un-treated, that seems like you'd have to remove the sashes every time and have no window for a day?!

d000hg, good evening.

Traditional Sash and Case windows were never painted on the surfaces where the top and lower sashes touch the case, when the sashes are in the closed position.

Conventionally, the paint was applied to the lower case to a height of approximately 100.mm above the sill, and completed by a half round swipe of the paint brush.

The only thing that was traditionally applied to the edges of the sash and the case [as above ] was candle wax, this to provide lubrication for the sashes to slide easily and being candle wax dirt and grit will not adhere to the wax.

Strangely. the areas we are discussing do not seem to suffer wood rot despite not being "Protected" whereas the sills are probably the most prone to wood rot, despite being painted.

Ken.