Building Regs and Kitchen Extension

James999ft · 28 Nov 2017

Hi, I'm having a rear kitchen extension built and am getting confused about those things in building regs that are desirable and those things that are mandatory. If it is mandatory I will do it, if it is desirable (e.g. if it is mandatory for a new build, but not for a change to existing building) then I want to understand the risks/costs and then make an informed decision

The electrician came today and said that I needed a new consumer unit fitting or he couldn't sign off the work. The existing CU is a modern unit, albeit plastic not metal, and the existing circuits to the old kitchen are RCD protected. The circuits to the kitchen were subject to major work in 2009 and the electrician at the time signed off. Is the electrician required to upgrade the CU to current regs in order to sign off on his work overall? Besides CUs needing to be metal not plastic, what regs have changed since 2009 that could require work to be done at the CU?

thanks in advance

ericmark · 28 Nov 2017

As far as I am aware building regs say it must be safe and surgest following bs7671 is one method. But nothing says it must be followed. You could if you wish build to German standards.

As to if a scheme member can follow German regs is some thing else.

James999ft · 28 Nov 2017

OK, put it another way, would a UK electrician following BS7671 to provide electricity to an extension be required by current Building Regs and British Standards to replace a consumer unit that met standards prevailing in 2009 but does not meet the standards prevailing today for new consumer units?

thanks

ericmark · 28 Nov 2017

Think of the English. To comply with bs7671:2012 it clearly has to comply with bs7671:2012.

But there is nothing to say any item needs up grading. But if you are adding then what you add must comply with current regs.

So items have caused problems where for example there is no RCD protection which would be hard to provide half way around a ring. But in the main there is no need to upgrade.

aptsys · 28 Nov 2017

Nothing says you must have your current CU replaced - The electrician is being awkward.
Who installed the new circuits in the extension?

James999ft · 28 Nov 2017

Reputable local company did the work in 2009, but new electrician is provided by my main contractor (who is generally excellent ) so I have no option to use someone else

ban-all-sheds · 28 Nov 2017

James999ft said:
The electrician came today and said that I needed a new consumer unit fitting or he couldn't sign off the work.

Either he is a liar, in which case kick him into touch, and do not let him anywhere near your build, or he is an idiot, in which case kick him into touch, and do not let him anywhere near your build.

ban-all-sheds · 28 Nov 2017

ericmark said:
As far as I am aware building regs say it must be safe and surgest following bs7671 is one method. But nothing says it must be followed. You could if you wish build to German standards.

As to if a scheme member can follow German regs is some thing else.

Irrelevant.

BS 7671 does not require a CU to be replaced when adding circuits to, or extending circuits from, it.

ban-all-sheds · 28 Nov 2017

James999ft said:
OK, put it another way, would a UK electrician following BS7671 to provide electricity to an extension be required by current Building Regs and British Standards to replace a consumer unit that met standards prevailing in 2009 but does not meet the standards prevailing today for new consumer units?

Absolutely not.

ban-all-sheds · 28 Nov 2017

aptsys said:
Nothing says you must have your current CU replaced - The electrician is being awkward.

No, he is not being "awkward".

He is either being someone with such a poor understanding of the regulations that he should not be allowed to work as an electrician, and he certainly should not be employed by a reputable contractor, or he is being a lying, cheating thief, in which case he should not be allowed to work as an electrician, and he certainly should not be employed by a reputable contractor.

ban-all-sheds · 28 Nov 2017

James999ft said:
new electrician is provided by my main contractor (who is generally excellent ) so I have no option to use someone else

Yes, you do.

You are the one paying the contractor - you make it absolutely clear to him that unless he provides someone other than this lying, theiving/ignorant buffoon the he too will be kicked into touch, and not get one penny more, and that if necessary you will see him and his lying, theiving/ignorant buffoon of an "electrician" in court where the so-called electricians lies/ignorance will be laid bare, along with the contractor's contravention of the Construction Design and Management Regulations 2015.

This so-called "electrician"'s behaviour is outrageously unacceptable.

James999ft · 29 Nov 2017

Thanks all, I rang NICEIC as well who confirmed no need to replace CU

ban-all-sheds · 29 Nov 2017

Indeed.

So now you have a situation where you've got an electrician who either does not understand the regulations, and is misleading you as a result, or does know them but is lying to you in order to make more money.

IMO neither type of person should be allowed to continue, and no reputable contractor should continue to use him as a sub-contractor.

If you are minded to carry on with him, worry about what else he might be tempted to do as a result of either his ignorance or his dishonesty, now compounded by the disgruntlement of having been found out.

James999ft · 2 Dec 2017

Hi - another question, am I allowed to fix sockets to the inside of my kitchen cabinets or do they have to be mounted on the wall? I'm going to have a gap of about 125 mm between back of cabinets and wall so cutting a hole in cabinet to access a wall mounted socket will be a bit ugly. If I am allowed to mount inside the cabinets is this something that has to be done by a qualified electrician or can I fit the sockets? (I presume the latter as I think adding new sockets to an existing circuit, even in a kitchen, is not notifiable work)

ban-all-sheds · 2 Dec 2017

James999ft said:
Hi - another question, am I allowed to fix sockets to the inside of my kitchen cabinets or do they have to be mounted on the wall?

Opinions vary. Which means it's clearly not forbidden. (I assume they are fixed cabinets, not freestanding and moveable).

I'm going to have a gap of about 125 mm between back of cabinets and wall so cutting a hole in cabinet to access a wall mounted socket will be a bit ugly.

What are the sockets going to be used for? Sockets in cupboards tend to get hard to reach because of tins of beans etc.

[quoteIf I am allowed to mount inside the cabinets is this something that has to be done by a qualified electrician or can I fit the sockets? (I presume the latter as I think adding new sockets to an existing circuit, even in a kitchen, is not notifiable work)[/QUOTE]
You're right.

But where do the cables run, and how will you get them to sockets fixed to cupboards?

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Building Regs and Kitchen Extension

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