Pump Running, but no demand

Bon

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Lancashire
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Hi all. I’ve got a Baxi 400 heat-only boiler (located in the garage) with an S-plan htg/DHW set up. The pump is located in airing cupboard with the control valves and the unvented cylinder.

When we first moved in, we found the heating pump ran constantly regardless of heating or DHW demand. When the pump runs against closed valves, the pipes make a knocking which is enough wake me up/keep me awake (light-sleeper)

This was diagnosed to there only being a frost-stat in the garage (set at the lowest setting of 5 degrees) and no pipe stat, plus it being winter and blooming cold!

I’ve noticed recently that it’s doing the same thing. However I have disconnected the frost stat wiring so it cant be that, and at the moment there is no htg demand.

The last time it happened was the night before we were going on holiday and had a 3am alarm set. I turned off the fused spur to the heating which kills everything. When I woke up I turned it back on, expecting the pump to turn on, but it didn’t.

Is it possible that there is some electrical malfunction with the 2-port valve to the cylinder? The valve itself isn’t stuck as I can manually move it using the lever (and can hear water moving through it) but in my head that’s the only thing that could be switching the pump on (see below diagram)

IMG_6926.jpeg

It’s certainly giving me something to think about whilst on holiday!!!
 
Thanks, will do. What I don’t fully understand is why it would “stick” on after a demand period (it’s usually set to DHW “on” until 9pm), but then after having the mains off for a few hours it wouldn’t then turn the the pump on straight away, can the valves “stick” in the open position (electrically) then reset after a mains-off??
 
Modern boilers, control the circulation pump directly, to allow it to run on for a while to cool the boiler/extract maximum heat. Some pumps, caused the pump relay contacts in the boiler, to weld up, thus the pump runs continuously.
 
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AFAIR the 400 series doesn't control the pump so a failed zone valve microswitch is the 1st item to check.
That’s what I thought. Doesn’t explain the sporadic behaviour though (unless that’s what they do when broken)
 
Hi all - just back from holiday so straight to some fault finding…

Turning off the hot water at the time-clock (via Tado app) turns everything off fine & proper.

However if I turn the cylinder stat down until it clicks off and closes the 2-port but the pump runs on. Turning the stat back up until it clicks opens the valve again.

Tried turning it all the way off and it closed the valve and turned the pump. However I had to turn it fully to the right to get it to come back on.

Now turning it until it clicks off closes the valve and shuts the pump off but I still had to turn it all the way to the right to get it to come back on.

I’m therefore thinking the cylinder stat may be the culprit??
 
The cyl stat only turns the cylinder zone valve motor on or off. Under a demand the stat would energise the motor. As the motor opens the valve a cam/lever also rotates and operates the microswitch when the valve is nearly fully open. It is this switch that then energises the boiler & pump ( via the orange wire).
 
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Good evening you amazing people (yes I have another question…)

So, I’ve had a few weeks of normal operation and haven’t dared to even look in the airing cupboard as it’s been working fine…

…until Tuesday. So my wife’s Tado app logged itself out and as I was away with work in London from Monday the geo-fencing kicked in and turned everything off. So, no hot water for Monday. Sussed that out and in the meantime we lost our broadband which took the Tado interface out completely.

Got home Wednesday and Openreach’s contractor was just fixing the broadband.

It now however seems that the curse of the pump that won’t turn off is back!

I’ve bought a replacement valve and actuator tonight as (obviously) you can’t just get a replacement actuator for the Drayton unit I’ve got installed - and have spent the evening with my multi-meter out.

There’s voltage at the switched live wire from the actuator, regardless of whether the valve is open or closed - and no voltage on the cylinder stat wire when the stat clicks off and voltage when it click open.

Removing wires from the wiring centre to the actuator and running the heating works fine (boiler & pump switch on/off with the valve opening/closing).

I’m going to wire the actuator up before I drain the pipes and remove the valve body to make doubly sure but just wanted to check in with you guys/girls and make sure the above makes sense??

Thanks
 
A very common fault on Drayton actuators is for a return spring mounting lug to break off.
If you unclip the head (unless it's a very old type) you can normally pull the end of the spring through the case hole.
 
I’ll have a look tonight. The actuator is definitely driving the valve open/shut as I can hear the change in water flow
 
if your changing the actuator it is cheaper to buy the whole valve and just use the acuator
50 quid from toolstation
 
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