2 Way Lighting - Lamps from both switches

[John Williamson]

I seem to have confused the hell out of myself so looking for a little advice.

I have 2 x 2 way switches. I need to control 3 lamps as seen in the drawing below.

I have:
2 core + E feed coming in to Switch 1
3 core + E from Switch 1 to Lamp 1
3 core + E from Switch 1 to Switch 2
3 core + E from Switch 2 to Lamp 3
3 core + E from Lamp 3 to Lamp 2

I want all 3 lights controlled by switches 1 and 2 ideally but I'm struggling to work out how to connect Lamp 1. (diagram below)

Can't connect lamp 1 live to common as it will always be on. Any help much appreciated.

All 3 lights are Knightsbridge PWL1 plaster wall lights with live and neutral connectors and G9 bulbs https://www.mlaccessories.co.uk/products/4356202/datasheet.html

 

[EFLImpudence]

Are you sure that the FEED cable is Line(live) and Neutral and not the more usual Line(live) and Switched live?

 

[John Williamson]

Are you sure that the FEED cable is Line(live) and Neutral and not the more usual Line(live) and Switched live?

Well at the moment that feed is coming directly from the consumer unit so yes, Live and Neutral

 

[EFLImpudence]

Ok - then you will either need a five core cable (4 core + E) between the switches or another 3 core +E cable from lamp 1 to lamp 2 (or 3).

 

[John Williamson]

Ok - then you will either need a five core cable (4 core + E) between the switches or another 3 core +E cable from lamp 1 to lamp 2 (or 3).

Thank you. Too late for that. I guess Lamp 1 will have to be independent

 

[SUNRAY]

Another solution would be to install a Kinetic switch/receiver in one switch location and a remote kinetic switch in the other.

Another could be to use 12V bulbs (which would all have to be of the same rating) wired in series and introduce a 36V transformer

 

[John Williamson]

Another solution would be to install a Kinetic switch/receiver in one switch location and a remote kinetic switch in the other.

Another could be to use 12V bulbs (which would all have to be of the same rating) wired in series and introduce a 36V transformerView attachment 402767

Thank you. I have a bunch of Quinetic switches elsewhere. The reason I have ruled these out is that switch 1 is a 3 gang 2 way switch. Using the Quinetic euro modules I'd only be able to get 2 gangs in a single back box.

I like the idea of the 12V bulbs but would struggle to fit in a transformer.

I think I am going to solve this with a couple of Shelly smart switches. 1 at switch 2 which would connect common to SW to read when lamps 2 & 3 have power, and another behind switch 1 (but not connected) which mirrors the on off state of the other Shelly.

 

[SUNRAY]

The transformer can be anywhere between the consumer unit and the switch.

 

[John Williamson]

The transformer can be anywhere between the consumer unit and the switch.

The bit my brain is struggling with is why this would work with the 36V and not work with 230V. I might be missing something fundamental but would the below not work?

There's still only 3 cores (and earth) between the 2 switches. Lamps wired in series with the return to neutral from Lamp 1

 

[SUNRAY]

The bit my brain is struggling with is why this would work with the 36V and not work with 230V. I might be missing something fundamental but would the below not work?

There's still only 3 cores (and earth) between the 2 switches. Lamps wired in series with the return to neutral from Lamp 1

View attachment 402780

This will work if you can find 80V bulbs.

IE 230/3 = 76.7V

 

[ericmark]

I use the two-way switches the other way around.

it means no junction in the switch back box, this method

the feed to light goes through the switch box, but connected to nothing, so needs a junction inside the box. I would have said use an isolator and smart bulbs, but don't think one can get G9 smart bulbs, they caused me problems, to get the covers on, needs the small bulb, but that bulb would glow dim using electronic switches without a neutral, and needed a capacitor fitting in parallel to the bulb, and the larger bulb strictly speaking not UK legal, and made the lamp look very different, wife did accept the larger bulb, so got away with it. I have since found a battery powered smart switch TP-Link (Tapo) which can be used without a neutral and does not cause a problem with G9 bulbs. But the switch master

does not match the switch slave.

and they need a hub, so extra

I like them as lazy, and hey google turn on living room main is easier than getting up out of my seat, but you can see it costs, so hard-wiring is cheaper.