45m2 Patio laying

[chriselevate]

I've cleared my patio slabs ready for a build to start preparation for a new patio this week. Just wanted a bit of advice to clarify a few things before it's started/done.

1. We've chosen porcelain tile 600 x 600 (20mm thick bradstone) are these consider ok to lay?
2. He's providing hardcore base. Is there a thickness to achieve with this once it's whackered down?
3. I've heard the "backs" of porcelain tiles need sealing.
4. I've heard they are to be laid on a bed of sand/cement.
5. Can the be laid with and without the need of a gap between them? Any advice on this?
6. He's going to make sure the fall is away from my house and use a 20mm gravel round all edges.

Finally, I have a bit of a problem with the location of a manhole cover! Any advice on how to make a 600 x 900 manhole cover look nice/be serviceable with a new patio going down onto it?! The last people owner just put sand over it and sat the slabs onto it!

Thanks for any help/advice you can give.

 

[Ian H]

You can get a manhole cover that you can sit your slabs into.

 

[chriselevate]

What do they look like? I'm guessing not very nice but I'm open to suggestions of what's available. Thanks.

 

[SFK]

Chris
Manhole covers with tiles in look good if done properly:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=m...qI7WAhUSU1AKHQCgBlAQ_AUICygC&biw=1920&bih=950
sfk

 

[chriselevate]

Thanks SFK. Not really keen but I guess there's no other way. It's a shame because it's right infront of my bifold doors and personally I think it'll ruin the patio. I'm guessing there are no other options? Thanks.

 

[Ian H]

Move the manhole or bury it.

 

[Nige F]

I assume the manhole is a foul water one - some are rainwater and can be buried

 

[chriselevate]

Ahh ok. So I need to work out what type of drain it is really? I'm guessing you're right and it's a foul water one. I'm also guessing this can't/shouldn't be buried?

Would it be a too bigger job to move it to a corner of the patio in order to hide it more? Is this not something that can be be done? Just considering the options.

Thanks.

 

[Nige F]

It *shouldn't * be buried but it really depends on what goes into it and where....eg. the manhole outside my front door takes 3 gulleys and a WC all within 6 feet of the M/H. The main run is adopted by the water authority.Within 10 feet both ways on the main run are 2 manholes. I would have no concerns covering my manhole, because - the run can be jetted, and the branches can be cleared from above. Pictures and a diagram would help here.

 

[chriselevate]

Thanks Nige. Mine has been buried for 3 years and never had a problem. This doesn't mean there will never be a problem but so far so good. I guess I need to work out a diagram of what's going where and then make some decisions?

In terms of moving the manhole, I'm guessing this is quite an involved job?

 

[r896neo]

Is there proper drainage going in? 45 sq/m is far too big an area to just fall it towards somewhere?

What is the 20mm gravel for around the edges?

A recessed cover put it by a good paver will be relatively disguised.

The backs need coating with a bonding slurry because porcelain I so hard it doesn't stick well. You should aim for small joints like 5mm. Less than this will make it very hard to joint. If you have 1-2mm you would have to joint with kiln dried sand and that is crap compared to a proper resin mortar joint.

Has this guy laid porcelain paving before?

 

[chriselevate]

Is there proper drainage going in? 45 sq/m is far too big an area to just fall it towards somewhere?

What is the 20mm gravel for around the edges?

A recessed cover put it by a good paver will be relatively disguised.

The backs need coating with a bonding slurry because porcelain I so hard it doesn't stick well. You should aim for small joints like 5mm. Less than this will make it very hard to joint. If you have 1-2mm you would have to joint with kiln dried sand and that is crap compared to a proper resin mortar joint.

Has this guy laid porcelain paving before?

Thanks for the reply r896neo.

No there isn't any proper drainage going in. My current patio is wrong in many ways.... it's tilted towards the house and 1/3rd is level with the DPC and 2/3rds is 1 brick below DPC so the plan is to take the whole lot down to a finished level of 2 bricks below DPC and then use 20mm gravel round the edges to take any run off. Although I'm guessing you're suggesting something else here?

I've take a look at recessed covers and I'm not keen on the look of them if it's this sort of this you're meaning.... https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b5/be/ca/b5beca771355799c8c8aa94f8af1bee1.jpg but I guess it's neater than a lot you see.

So the builders merchants (supplying the slabs) said it was a sealant that needed applying before laying on a . I'm guessing this isn't correct then? You mention coating the backs with a bonding slurry? So the aim would be for 5mm joints and you mention a proper resin mortar joint? Could you recommend one?

The builder has laid lots of patios before but I've not specifically asked about porcelain, no.

Any help/suggestions with this would be really appreciate. Thanks again.

 

[r896neo]

Recessed covers for flags are much less obvious because you can align them with joints.

What is the 20mm gravel all round for? Just decoration?

If was the paving contractors advice for drainage It would ring alarm bells.

45 sqm is a good sized area of paving and the run off will be significant. You really need to fall it towards linear drains or a gulley and collect it rather than hope it will seep away into a tiny strip of gravel.

The 'sealant' I cant help with. I assume the builders merchant is trying to suggest using a sealer to reduce maintenance and risk of staining during installation but you would have to ask them??

You should install porcelain with a 'bond bridge' using an sbr slurry to aid adhesion as its so low suction being very dense and hard. Google " paving expert bond bridge"

As for jointing there are various choices ay various costs. If you want to use a 5mm joint you must use a pointing compound applied in slurry form as you can fill a narrow joint successfully with tools.

Bottom of the cost pile is mortar like flowpoint then you have one part jointing compounds like Marshalls weatherpoint, easyjoint etc. Then 2 part resins like rompox d1, gtfk vdw and nexxus. They are most expensive but very very good.

Marshalls make a porcelain specific jointing compound for their symphony porcelain paving too I think.

 

[chriselevate]

I'll post some pictures and measurements when I get home if that's ok? I'm getting worried now you've mentioned those drainage issues. I can't afford to have it all relaid and changed if it's wrong and needs doing again.

 

[r896neo]

Do post a pic if you can. If the overflow is heading off to a lawn or similar it may not be a big deal but I'm imagining your garden is higher than the patio due to it sloping toward the house before.