4K IP Camera's

[The Baker]

Has any one had personal experience of the 4K Security Camera's.

With a starting cost of £800+vat they are priced beyond my "buy it and try it" threshold.

TIA

Tim

 

[sparkymarka]

Don't think it will be the camera cost, but just think of the storage costs probably need 4tb for one camera for a couple of weeks !

 

[secureiam]

you seriously looking at a 4K camera?

 

[secureiam]

There are ways of reducing storage requirements and not all of them compromise the image significantly.

Unfortunately from what I have seen over the last few days, it varies from manufacturer to manufacturer as to what you can do and how the image is affected.

If the camera had analytics rather than general motion detection you may be able to look at recording the images around the time pf the analytics being activated should save you a lot of space and be easier to view as everything would be event based rather than trawling through hours and hours of recording.

 

[trickysteph1]

Will H.265 make much of a difference with video storage? From what i have read it almost halves the amount of storage required compared to H.264.

 

[secureiam]

HIK have a H264+ which they claim gives similar performance to H265, it will depend on the scene and what's going on.
If I understand correctly that H265 will require different equipment so existing equipment wont be upgradable (hardware components).

I would want proof on a similar scene scenario to see if it will be of benefit.

From what I have seen, the compression difference will vary from 0 to 75% better compression but its scene dependant (or more on what that scene is doing at any given time). The average being around 50%, your not going to know for certain until you have data for that location.

 

[The Baker]

Thanks for all advice offered.

The reason I asked is because although the Panasonic WV-SW175e is a useful camera which has pan/tilt/zoom the image at the distances I have them set to view mean the detail is not as good as would like.


It’s not the fault of the camera, it’s just that I have them to high up. They are fixed to the 1st and 2nd floor levels, this gives a good field of view but the down side is loss of fine detail.


My recording ability is limited the 24 hour recording ability of the on board 32GB SD cards of each camera. I could increase to recording time by enabling the motion detection facility but have not got my head around that yet.

I have considered the Milestone Systems free program to store and control on a workstation of my own, even installing 2TB of Raid 5 for capacity and reliability.


I would probably find it easier from a personal user point of view if I kept to the same manufacturer, but at £1800 the Panasonic 4K cameras are a bit beyond my means.


Since posting the question and seeing your answers I have read a few bits in the internet about 4K which backs up what some of you have said about the demands 4K put on the rest of the set up.


No company appear to have a “Try before You Buy” division their sales people can offer. For someone like myself, the need to be sure a couple of thousand pounds spent on a single camera is not going to be wasted is important.



Tim

https://www.milestonesys.com/

https://www.panasonic.com/my/busine.../pan-tilt-network-cameras/wv-sw175.specs.html

 

[secureiam]

the camera you mention is a Panasonic WV-SW175e 720p 1.3MP which isn't exactly fantastic by any means.

what coverage distance do you have from left to right (how wide is your field of view).

I was shown a HIK Vision 4K screen shot from a fixed camera placed the view background was 500 m away from the camera, so digitally zooming in you were able to make people out that you could not see looking at the original image, but would still probably below the detection level number of pixel/meters if you worked it out.

The question is what do you want to use the cameras for as you have some scope from what you have before you get to 4K level.

Think you may be approaching this requirement incorrectly.

 

[The Baker]

Viewing angle, horizontal 85°
Viewing angle, vertical 68°
Tilt angle -45 - 10°
Tilt speed 80 °/sec
Pan range -47.5 - 47.5° So over 90 degrees Left to Right.


My place is an end terrace so to I have two cameras mounted it the exterior corners some two feet out on a home made boom.

The cameras are facing inwards, this gives me the ability to pan from one exterior wall and pathway to the other if you see what I mean.

My main reasons are to see if the Cat is OK when I am away for a few days (on the mobile or tablet) and also deter and spot any one getting over my high gates and walls.

Fortunately getting into my house at ground floor level is difficult without a key. One reason being that any one looking in can clearly see the 10mm steel reinforcing mesh it the back of the windows. All suggestions much appreciated.

I am new to this subject and am only just reading up on networking (if that's the correct term)

Tim

 

[secureiam]

So you have PTZ covering an end terrace that's approximately 4.5-5m wide at a height of around 6M ish?

The focal length is small at 1.95 giving a relatively wide field of view ie large wide picture with no detail.

The higher the camera the steeper the angle, to cover the same distance from the house. distance from house to perimeter?.

if you can pm me some details and pictures of your current setup, I will see if there is a little more I can do for you.

Photography sites may be able to explain this better for you to understand, if you cant find a cctv site explaining it.

 

[The Baker]

Thanks, I will take some pictures over then next few days and pm you.

Tim

 

[willco007]

My advise would be to not think about 4k and look for a nice 1080p camera. The image quality depends on a lot of factors. There are phones that can shoot in 4k but the videos will look a lot worse than a 1080p video from a dedicated 1080p camcorder/dslr. Most people can't enjoy 4K quality unless they have a several thousand dollar screen.

 

[secureiam]

with HD cameras its more about the pixel density at the point of interest and what you want to be able to do at that point of interest.

In some cases a 720p could give a higher pixel density than a 1080p, but I doubt that's the case on the one.

 

[trickysteph1]

In some cases a 720p could give a higher pixel density than a 1080p

Explain please

 

[secureiam]

You want the maths?

pixel density is pixel per meter.
720 pixels wide doesn't mean that its covering the same number of meters as the 1080p.
( but 720 is height and so is 1080, not width).


http://www.rtings.com/images/resolutions-ultra-hd-4k-1080p-720p-dvd.png

1280 x 720 and 1920 x 1080

lets see if I can find a pre calculated example.

so say the camera is mounted two meters high

the field of view for 720p (12 camera is 80o, giving us a scene width of 3.36m
a 1080p has a wider field of view 118o, giving a scene width of 6.66m

so the pixel density on the 720 camera is = 1280 pixels / 3.36m = 381 pix/m
so the pixel density on the 1080 camera is = 1920 pixels / 6.66m = 288 pix/m

so the pixel density is higher on the 720p camera due its field of view compared to the 1080 cameras field of view.

the 1080 camera there is more data but its over a larger area lower pixel density, the 720 camera the data (pixel/density is higher) because the pixels cover a smaller area.

If you look at your garden and the camera can see your neighbours garden zoom in a little until your garden is at the edge of the camera (that's assuming the camera can be adjusted), you have increased the pixel density as the camera is covering a smaller distance from left to right but the number of pixels of the camera haven't changed.

There is lots more things to calculate but the field of view is down to the lens. if you can find some decent online calculators it may help.
(photography sites may help if you cant access those from CCTV sites).